All in One Mythic Zul Guide for Sub Rogues

Welcome to the All in One Mythic Guide to Zul in the Uldir raid! This guide should sort you out with most if not all things Mythic Zul. If you have any questions feel free to ask in the #subtlety channel in the Ravenholdt discord.

Upcoming Changes

This strategy is significantly nerfed come 8.1, Subtlety Rogue is receiving several heavy nerfs across the class due to its potential to cheese this fight.

Shuriken Combo was previously nerfed on the PTR from  ̶8̶ % -> 5%, with a very slight buff given to Shuriken Storms damage; Both of these changes are bad because it kills crawgs faster, and priority target slower; however in the latest build Shuriken Combo it was removed entirely. Which means eviscerate hits 28.5% less than live with its removal.

  •  Shuriken Combo  – Shuriken Storm increases the damage of your next Eviscerate by   ̶8̶ % -> 5% for each enemy hit beyond the first. Stacks up to 5 times.
    Shuriken Combo is no longer listed as a Subtlety spell, removed from the spellbook entirely as of latest PTR build.

 

  •  Shuriken Storm Sprays shurikens at all targets within 10 yards, dealing [(18% ->20.7% of Attack power)] Physical damage.

The First Dance was changed to become a haste buff instead of a crit buff, which makes it fairly useless for AoE compared to its Crit iteration.

Read about the comprehensive changelog here.

TLDR: Nerfs to priority target damage, the Sub Rogue Zul strategy will no longer be as strong of a strategy come 8.1, other strategies will most likely be recommended instead.

Simming

To sim for Zul, do 6 Target Patchwerk, the time depends on your raid group but it’s typically 3-4 minutes. 6 Target removes the multi-dotting condition, you’ll have consistent adds, and there are no meaningful mechanics besides DPS for sub rogues.

However, even that comes with a few quirks and differences to the typical Zul playstyle (e.g. Night’s Vengeance simming at more value than it “should” because it automatically causes multi-dotting). Mystler has already updated the Raidbots nightly build. This means you can put priority_rotation=1 into the Custom APL box on Raidbots and use it on Top Gear, Gear Compare etc. Using this plus the usual 6T 4min sim, the sim should match Zul better. (Just don’t forget to remove that option from the custom APL field again when running normal sims.)

Gearing

Stat priority:

Mastery >> Critical Strike/Versatility >Haste

Talents: 2120013

Azerite: The First Dance and Archive of the Titans are both extremely strong here.

Strategy

Raid keeps the crawgs alive so Sub Rogues can tunnel and burn Zul with Shuriken Storm/Shuriken Combo

Rotation

Rotation is

  1. Keep Nightblade up on Zul
  2. Build combo points with Shuriken Storm
  3. Spend combo points/finish on 5+ (Eviscerate, unless you need to refresh Nightblade).
  4. SoD on CD along with ShD
  5. Use ShD with SoD/tornado or to prevent overcapping charges (which can happen a lot since the CD reduces massively in AoE) and in SoD/tornado. Don’t hold SoD/tornado you hold a ShD charge.

Tips

  • Keep Nightblade up on Zul, refresh so it doesn’t fall off during SoD/ShD but never refresh during ShD (refresh before if it will fall off during ShD).
  • Don’t reapply find weakness in dance apply it through vanish/stealth and do so right before tornado.
  • You can only fit 5 globals in dance (GCD isn’t affected by haste), and neither SoD nor ShD are on the GCD so you cast them at the same time; it does not matter which goes first.
  • When using tornado, use it one second before SoD/ShD to not waste a GCD in dance, and always go into dance on high combo points for maximum priority target damage.
  • See Kistler’s guide to see how you can deal with certain mechanics as a rogue.

Opener

Basically the same as the rotation but it goes as follows:

Potion/Shadow Blades > Shadowstrike > Nightblade> tornado > SoD/ShD > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > ShD> Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm

 

Screenshot of opener and how it relates to the rotation

1) Applied find weakness through vanish/stealth only.
2) Kept up  Nightblade and did not refresh inside ShD.
3) Delayed SoD/ShD by a gcd to not waste a GCD in dance.
4) Went into ShD on high combo points to get 3 eviscerates in ShD instead of just 2.

Note: the single Shuriken Storms are from tornado and the double ones are from when Shuriken Storm is cast by the player, it’s formatted that way in WCL.

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Fans of Knives: Our Weekly News Roundup for February 10th, 2015

Blogs are the big news for this week!

In his blog, The Shadowy Dancer, Haileaus took on the topic of self-improvement:

Are you looking to improve, or help others become better rogues? Do you want feedback on your logs or to see what others are doing? Post in this thread in our forums:

 

Vigilate has started his own new blog, The Bandit’s Guile, where he will talk Rogue stuff and other stuff. He is anticipating being able to post twice a week and we are looking forward to seeing what he has to say:

 

As everyone probably knows by now, WoW Insider is effectively dead, but from the ashes a new, crowd funded site has arisen, Blizzard Watch. Response to this has been so fantastic that Alex Ziebart and company have been able to bring back much of the content that was axed a year or so ago. We are very excited to learn that our own Rfeann, Scott Helfand, will be back to write Encrypted Text again. Super congratulations to Alex, Scott, and all of the BW crew.

If you would like to join over 2500 other Blizzard Watch fans and contribute to this incredibly promising site:

Also you can keep up with the latest Blizzard Watch goings on on Twitter by following:

 

And in other news, one wee hotfix for us:

 

That’s the haps in the Rogueverse this week – looking forward to lots of lovely new blog content coming up…

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Beta Rogue Rotation Feedback

Cross posted from official forum feedback thread because I doubt many people are following the beta feedback threads too carefully.

Testing done with a level 100 premade.  Level 100 talent was Lemon Zest.

Single Target:

Assassination– Overall feels pretty good, energy regeneration in level 100 premade gear (ilvl 660) seemed about right especially with lemon zest proving an addition 0.6 energy per second.  There are two problems with the spec, vendetta and complexity.  Vendetta remains a really boring button to press with absolutely zero rotational interaction.  Especially compared to the cooldowns of the other two specs vendetta feels very lacking.  I completely forgot about the vendetta crit perk till I was writing this just now as I didn’t notice it during testing.  The spec also feels like its missing a mechanic.  The new emphasis on envenom is good but it isn’t enough to make the spec challenging and interesting.  The combination of the new pandemic mechanic plus the rate that spec plays at means that you’d be hard pressed to generate combo points fast enough to clip envenom.

Combat– Combat feels very slow, not just compared to current live speed but compared to the other two specs.  While combat does have faster energy regeneration than the other two specs the much higher energy cost per combo point makes the spec feel very slow.  The energy cost of sinister strike probably should be returned to 40 energy and then rebalance adrenaline rush so the spec doesn’t feel too spammy.  I’m also somewhat worried about the UI requirements of the new bandit’s guile system, I’m a huge fan of the design but this mechanic is going to require addons to play correctly.  You can track the progress in your head reasonably well but it requires a fair amount of concentration, especially if you are also trying to mentally track bandit’s guile progress (As a reminder this really needs better UI support).

Subtlety– Subtlety hasn’t changed much from live where it’s a lot of fun and so it still plays very well on beta.  The pace seems good and find weakness optimization is still a fun mechanic, albeit a frustrating one with the default UI.  The problem is that is really all the spec has going for it right now, the resource generation is high enough (even without full HAT saturation) to keep SnD and rupture up trivially without having to refresh during dance which was one of the major sources of complexity in the spec.  If the design intent is for subtlety is for the spec to be intentionally more difficulty it certainly isn’t living up to that now.  The durations of SnD and rupture need to be reduced substantially, at least 20% to 30% to make subtlety rogues have resource constraints that need to be actively managed.

AoE (Two AoE cases examined, priority target with incidental cleave on two targets and sustained three target AoE):

Note: Crimson Tempest is currently proccing Relentless Strikes per target which probably isn’t intended, I’ve tried to consider the impact of that additional energy to evaluate these rotations without this behavior.  I’ll also note that even if this isn’t intended it does make the current rotations better.

Assassination– Lemon Zest speeds up the rotation very nicely when you have multiple targets to cleave.  I’d like to see the default UI provide a bit more information about Lemon Zest, specifically how long your shortest deadly poison has left but that may be enough of specialized piece of information for addons to handle.  For sustained AoE rupture multidotting and weaving in crimson tempests is a lot of fun, on three targets it feels like you have infinite energy and crimson tempest as AoE poison damage increase synergizes nicely.  Even discounting the possible CT, RS bug (weaving envenoms rather than CT) the energy regen feels quite high. I don’t know if this is the intended or optimal damage AoE rotation for assassination but it is a great rotation so I hope it is.

Combat– The combat single target rotation is slow and AoE is even slower.  The blade flurry energy penalty makes the spec feel even worse.  Blade flurry provides passive maintenance for lemon zest which helps counter the blade flurry energy penalty but still slows the rotation substantially.  For sustained AoE CT basically effectively replaces eviscerate with a time to die breakeven point depending on the number of targets.  CT does not however feel like an exciting button to press, at least not without the possibly unintended RS interaction.  The same issues that plague the single target rotation plague combat here, the rotation feels incredibly slow and when compared to the way the other two specs speed up on AoE it feels even worse.

Subtlety– Combo points per target on FoK feels exactly as overpowered as we all expected but given subtlety’s current AoE weaknesses on live I’m not sure that is a huge problem.  The combo point overflow exacerbates the lack of resource limitations and multiple target lemon zest maintenance is a bit more frustrating for subtlety compared to the other two specs but it isn’t a deal breaker.  On sustained AoE CT as a rolling dot can result in some pretty beefy dots on a lot of targets but doesn’t provide a lot of AoE burst which seems like a good tradeoff.  The one complaint I have with sub AoE is the general lack of interaction between its major single target mechanic, shadow dance, and AoE, it makes the two rotations feel somewhat disconnected.

To recap:
Assassination Single Target: Good pace and flow, vendetta is boring and spec doesn’t have enough skill rewarding mechanics.
Combat Single Target: Way too slow, BG needs better UI support and may still be too hard to manage without addons.
Subtlety Single Target: Good pace, dance is still a good mechanic, not enough resource limitations to challenge players.
Assassination AoE: Good pace and flow, rotation is really fun.  Awesome design, please don’t change.
Combat AoE: SLOWWW, not particularly interesting but basically function.
Subtlety AoE: Good pace, very high combo point generation is fun, may need more interaction with single target.

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