Battle for Dazar’alor: A Rogue DPS Guide

Battle for Dazar’alor is the second raid in Battle for Azeroth. The raid covers a lot of different fighting styles, pure Single Target (ST), small and medium cleave, as well as an actual two target encounter. Depending on the actual amount of cleave, this raid suits Assassination more than the other two specs. Subtlety might not be too bad either, especially on the ST oriented fights in the raid. High downtime obviously favors Sin more and hurts Sub a lot.

Usually the number of adds spawning, the interval in between spawns, and their health pools will determine what traits you’re going to run. For example, for Assassination, Shrouded Suffocation won’t be good if adds die in a few seconds because Garrote won’t tick more than 2-3 times. Echoing Blades is most likely not a thing, since it barely does any damage unless you fight huge packs. Scent of Blood might find a spot on longer cleave fights. Other than that we’re most likely looking at the usual ones, Double Dose, Twist the Knife and the new trait, Nothing Personal.

In terms of Subtlety traits, it’s most likely gonna be a mix of traits, depending on the fight.

All of the info in this guide is subject to change, I will update it as soon as something changes! Some of the stuff will be coming after the actual release of the raid, since I haven’t been able to test bosses properly yet. I’ll add details asap!

Updated 29th January 2019

Abbreviations Used

Before I go further into all the fights and what traits/talents etc to use, here is a list of the abbreviations I will use throughout the guide.

TTK – Twist the Knife

SoB – Scent of Blood

SS – Shrouded Suffocation

DD – Double Dose

NP – Nothing Personal

TC – Treacherous Covenant

Inev – Inevitability

TFD – The first dance

EB – Echoing Blades

BitS – Blade in the Shadows


PB – Poison Bomb

CT – Crimson Tempest

TB – Toxic Blade

MA – Master Assassin

Subt – Subterfuge


WM – Weaponmaster

FW – Find Weakness

DS – Deeper Stratagem

MFD – Marked for Death

ES – Enveloping Shadows

SecTec – Secret Technique

MoSh – Master of Shadows

Fighting Styles in Battle for Dazar’alor

Champion of the Light – Small Cleave (Low HP adds)

Grong – Small Cleave (1 Add periodically, high focus)

Jadefire Masters – 2T Cleave

Opulence – Pure ST (Addwaves on the actual boss, nothing to focus on)

Conclave of the Chosen – Multitarget fight, however bosses heal to full after killing one aspect

King Rastakhan – Medium Cleave (Add phases, multiple adds + high hp)

Mekkatorque – Pure ST

Stormwall Blockade – ST (Split ships, Add spawns)

Jaina – Pure ST



The general type of gear you’ll hunt won’t change compared to Uldir, you still want haste, especially with the loss of the Reorigination Array (750 haste @10stacks) , but also depending on your current gear, your talents and your traits, stat weights will change. However, you can pretty safely say, haste >crit/mastery is your go to stats priority, just as usual. Going beyond that, we’ll look at trinkets/Azerite items. With BoD you’ll have a raid where every single boss drops an azerite item, which really helps getting at least some of them.

So, regarding Azerite items first, here’s a list of them in terms of strength:

UPDATE: With the fixed simc values of the Nothing Personal trait, some azerite items might have increased in value.


  • #1 Cowl of Righteous Resolve (Champion of the Light)
    • SS/DD first ring, NP/TC 2nd row, so you’re good to go in any situation.
  • #2 Tidemother’s Cover (Stormwall Blockade)
    • NP/TTK first ring, DD 2nd Ring, not as versatile, but in terms of ST strength, just as strong as #1 while also having a better defensive trait.
  • #3 Crown of A’akul’s Dark Reign (Opulence)
    • TTK/SS combination possible, might see some use, worse T3 tho.



  • #1 Mestrah’s Singing Spaulders (Jadefire Masters)
    • DD/NP + TC, works for all fights
  • #2 Admiralty’s Ceremonial Epaulets (Jaina)
    • SS + Scent/Seductive Power, might work on some cleave fights
  • #3 Phantom Stalker Shoulders (King Rastakhan)
    • Scent + TTK, rather avoid those if you can.



  • #1 Mekkatorque’s Bomber Jacket (Mekkatorque)
    • NP + DD/TC, solid overall choice again.
  • #2 Vestments of Indomitable Will (Conclave)
    • TTK + SS, a good substitute if you’re not lucky to get the other one.
  • #3 Grongpelt Vest (Grong, the Jungle Lord)
    • DD/SS + Scent, not too bad, but definitely not ideal.



In terms of trinkets you can always check to have an overview of how much a trinket is roughly worth, however to be sure you should always sim your own character to be sure if it’s an upgrade or not. There’s a total of 3 trinkets in this raid, all 3 being pretty solid and one being top end even.

Kimbul’s Razor Claw: Bleeds your target for some good damage, while having a nice little side effect with the leech if you’re behind your target.

Variable Intensity Gigavolt Oscillator Reactor: Crit cycle trinket, really good overall trinket, definitely worth picking it up

Invocation of Yu’lon: On use damage dealing trinket, pretty mid-tier, nothing fancy.

Other than that, the usual trinkets come into play: Harlan’s Loaded Dice, Lustrous Golden Plumage, Doom’s Wake, Galecaller’s Boon, Dead-eye Spyglass.



The new trait, Keep Your Wits About You, allows some interesting gear choices on aoe content, but our ST choices in this tier are quite clear. Additionally the new ring allows us to stack our 2 strongest class traits (Ace up your sleeve, Deadshot), and further pushes down any of the off-BIS traits since they do not stack as well with the BIS ones. This means you will generally aim for traits with Deadshot and/or ace on them or wits for cleave/aoe. Remember that you only need/want 1 wits piece for BF enabled content. As always, sim yourself!

Here’s the Outlaw Azerite Armor list for Battle of Dazar’alor ranked:


  • #1 Cowl of Righteous Resolve (Champion of the Light)
    • Deadshot or Ace + TC, very strong piece.
  • #2 Tidemother’s Cover (Stormwall Blockade)
    • Wits + Deadshot, solid piece in any situation where BF can be used.
  • #3 Crown of A’akul’s Dark Reign (Opulence)
    • Wits + Ace, Not as solid as #2, but still a great piece for BF enabled fights.



  • #1 Mestrah’s Singing Spaulders (Jadefire Masters)
    • Deadshot +TC, very strong piece.
  • #2 Admiralty’s Ceremonial Epaulets (Jaina)
    • Ace+ Brigand’z blitz, decent combination.
  • #3 Phantom Stalker Shoulders (King Rastakhan)
    • Brigand’z blitz + Wits, not a great piece, but an acceptable choice for your wits piece if you need one.



  • #1 Mekkatorque’s Bomber Jacket (Mekkatorque)
    • Brigand’z blitz + TC/Deadshot, overall a decent piece, but there are some dungeon items that are better. This is the slot I would recommend aiming to get from residuum.
  • #2 Grongpelt Vest (Grong, the Jungle Lord)
    • Deadshot/Ace + Brigand’z blitz, overall a decent piece very close to #1.
  • #3 Vestments of Indomitable Will (Conclave)
    • Wits + Ace, Very strong piece to pick for your Wits slot in dungeons or BF enabled bosses. Other than that this piece should be avoided.

Keep in mind that this list does not include dungeon gear, and any dungeon piece you find can shift the piece you want to aim for in raid.



In terms of trinkets you can always check to have an overview of how much a trinket is roughly worth, however to be sure you should always sim your own character to be sure if it’s an upgrade or not.

Kimbul’s Razor Claw: Bleeds your target for some good damage, while having a nice little side effect with the leech if you’re behind your target. Thanks to our innate haste bonus from alacrity this trinket is extremely strong and BIS by a significant margin. However this trinket does become worse as the target count increases which can cause other trinkets to surpass it for dungeons or cleave/aoe raid fights.

Variable Intensity Gigavolt Oscillator Reactor: Good trinket, comparable to many of the normally recommended dungeon trinkets.

Invocation of Yu’lon: A mid-tier trinket with the added problem that it gets worse as the target count increases due to splitting damage.



Due to the new version of The First Dance for Sub, Haste is no longer a thing really. The ~1.1k Haste you get is all you need to perform well. Other than that your focus is on Crit + Mastery/Vers, while pretty much ignoring Haste. If you’re really unlucky and you can’t get your hands on even one of the TFD traits, you might want some Haste to make your gameplay smooth and enjoyable. As always, sim yourself!

Moving forward, here’s the Subtlety Azerite Armor list for this tier:


  • #1 Cowl of Righteous Resolve (Champion of the Light)
    • Inev + TC, very strong piece.
  • #2 Crown of A’akul’s Dark Reign (Opulence)
    •  Perforate + Inev, solid piece.
  • #3 Tidemother’s Cover (Stormwall Blockade)
    • BitS/Night’s Vengeance + Replicating Shadows, rather avoid this piece


  • #1 Mestrah’s Singing Spaulders (Jadefire Masters)
    • BitS + TFD/TC, really good piece.
  • #2 Admiralty’s Ceremonial Epaulets (Jaina)
    • TFD/Inev + Perforate, depending on your other traits, definitely not too bad.
  • #3 Phantom Stalker Shoulders (King Rastakhan)
    • TFD/Perforate + Night’s Vengeance, mid-tier piece, definitely the worst choice in the raid.


  • #1 Vestments of Indomitable Will (Conclave)
    • TFD+Inev, top tier piece.
  • #2 Mekkatorque’s Bomber Jacket (Mekkatorque)
    • BitS/Perforate + TC, solid choice if you already got 1 Inev/TFD.
  • #3 Grongpelt Vest (Grong, the Jungle Lord)
    • Inev + Perforate, good piece, might be better than #2

Have in mind, this list might not be the same for you, as it heavily depends on the amount of Inevitability and TFD traits you already got, since the first of both has a lot more value than the second and third one, due to the additional effect.



In terms of trinkets you can always check to have an overview of how much a trinket is roughly worth, however to be sure you should always sim your own character to see if it’s an upgrade or not. There’s a total of 3 trinkets in this raid: Oscillator Reactor and Kimbul’s are both a really good pickup, with several dungeon trinkets being ahead or close to those. Invocation is rather mid-tier here, so try to avoid it if you can, unless you really haven’t got anything better.

Kimbul’s Razor Claw: Bleeds your target for some good damage, while having a nice little side effect with the leech if you’re behind your target.

Variable Intensity Gigavolt Oscillator Reactor: Crit cycle trinket, really good overall trinket, definitely worth picking it up

Invocation of Yu’lon: On use damage dealing trinket, pretty mid-tier, nothing fancy.

Other than that, the usual trinkets come into play: Harlan’s Loaded Dice, Lustrous Golden Plumage, Doom’s Wake, Galecaller’s Boon, Dead-eye Spyglass.



Next up, we’re going over into the talent section. For Assassination, the builds are rather standard. Either TB or Exsanguinate – Subterfuge or MA. TB provides more frequent burst windows, due to the lower cooldown and high average. Exsanguinate has insanely high burst windows if paired with several SS traits and Subterfuge, however a non-buffed Exsang is rather weak. Subterfuge also has some great value for Multitarget fights, whereas MA is pretty much pure ST and a really uncommon choice.

So the standard cookie cutter build is like this: 2212021 or 2212031 if you’re into Exsang. Sim yourself to know which one works better and compare it to the fight you’re about to do. E.g. a fight like Vectis favors TB a lot more due to more frequent add spawns, even though Exsang might be slightly higher for you personally.

There aren’t really any bosses that require a different talent build, there’s not enough AoE to make CT viable and everything else, be it ST or Cleave is done with one of the 2 standard builds. Grong might favor TB over Exsang, due to more frequent add spawns that have a high priority.



For outlaw you will be using the general cookie cutter builds for most fights 211XX22 or 212XX22 with enough ace traits. That being said Killing spree likely will see use on fights with add waves for the added burst as well as on Jadefire Masters where you can use it to generate wits stacks. As for the Slice and Dice it is still terrible, and the new set bonus from Jaina is not sufficient to make it good.



Update: With the nerf to TFD, the amount of talent choices has gone down a bit. WM and FW being really close, it’s down to personal preference mostly, with FW being a better choice if you can funnel damage into one target while abusing adds, like on Zul. Nightstalker has pretty much no scenario anymore, apart from AoE and “maybe” with 2 TFD + 1 BitS, other than that I think Shadow Focus just wins. Deeper Stratagem and Marked for Death are down to personal preference again, but also what kind of fight it is, MFD might come ahead a lot if there are some adds to use it on a lot. Looking at the Level 90 row, it’s Enveloping Shadows vs Dark Shadow, both being really good, Dark Shadow is usually picked up if you have some kind of aoe during the fight and/or you need higher on demand burst.  Both talents might see some kind of play during this tier. For the last row, it’s usually MoSh, however higher AoE fights definitely make SecTec a good choice, probably not this tier though.

The usual “cookie cutter” build here is the following: 2322031 , but have in mind that different encounters can change this build really quickly.

Looking specifically at bosses, most fights will be done with the standard build, however you can swap to something like Dark Shadow instead of ES for higher burst on Grong add spawns, Dark Shadow for Champion of the Light (Maybe even SecTec if your group has trouble killing off the adds), maybe also on Conclave, but that’s about it. I’ll update if I have a different opinion after heroic week.



With the addition of the 5th ring on Azerite items, this opens up a lot of space for new combinations. SS + SoB for cleave fights, DD + NP/TTK for pure ST and so on.  Since BoD has a lot of ST oriented fights, DD/NP/TTK and the new Raid Trait Treacherous Covenant (Have in mind the 2nd effect where you take additional damage) will have very high value. Even though some bosses have the possibility of having some cleave, most of it won’t be worth to focus on. Surely, having a second Rupture up on a target will have some nice value in terms of energy returns, but it might be only that, without any effective damage done. Therefor, most bosses will end up using DD + NP/TC combinations, maybe 1 TTK for the effect and only a few will see SS traits, with even less seeing any use of Scent of Blood.

So, regarding the specific bosses (this is not tested, just an assumption):

Champion of the Light: 1 SS might find some value for the phase where you actually hit adds. Otherwise focus on DD/NP/TC

Grong: Definitely high ST focus, DD/NP/TC combinations all the way

Jadefire Masters: Depending on the actual outcome of the fight, how close they are being tanked and so on, you might find use for 2 or even 3 SS with TC/NP, I doubt 2 targets will make SoB a thing already

Opulence: 100% ST, DD/NP/TC, no reason to use any aoe traits, even for the “add” phases

Conclave: Spread targets, small adds throughout the fight, multiple SS traits possible, depends on the actual add hp, how spread they are and so on, otherwise just focus mainly on ST again.

King Rastakhan: Definitely worth picking multiple SS traits here, Add Phase in P1, Add Phase in P3, so there’s definitely room for SS, while still being competitive on ST in the other 2 phases.

Mekkatorque: Full ST, nothing else to worry about

Stormwall Blockade: Full ST again

Jaina: Another Full ST fight

Update: TC nerf doesn’t change a lot, it’s still a really good trait, probably top 3 even post nerf. Have in mind that you might not have close to 100% uptime on some fights. But as you can see, there’s not a lot of room for cleave traits, surely they might see some use here and there, but the main part of the raid is gonna focus on ST.


Coming soon!



Update: With the amount of ST fights in BoD, your trait choices will mostly be around that type of fight. That being said and the class tuning being in now, you’re most likely looking at MAX 1 TFD, since the 2nd and 3rd one will have a lot less value and could be covered by better traits. 1 BitS has a lot of value and as I said in the talent section already, might be needed if you want to make NS work. 1 Inev is definitely a must have. Apart from that, Perforate (with the right talent build), Night’s Vengeance and TC are the traits you’re looking to get in the new raid.

Specifically about the bosses in BoD:

Champion of the Light: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations

Grong:1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations

Jadefire Masters: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations

Opulence: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations

Conclave:  Might see some use of Replicating Shadows even, otherwise just focus on ST

King Rastakhan: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations, maybe 1 RS/NV

Mekkatorque: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations

Stormwall Blockade: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations

Jaina: 1 Inev + 1 TFD + TC/BitS/Perforate combinations

In terms of traits, Subtlety doesn’t have a big difference, since the strength definitely is in the ST area which you should be focusing on. I highly doubt any of the AoE/Cleave traits will make the difference, it will mainly be in your choice of talents.

Tips and Tricks

Champion of the Light:

  • Stand inside the hitbox of the boss, with your back turned towards the adds. That way you do not get hit by the disorient or the Wave of Light
  • You can re-apply garrote/rupture to the Boss during P2 with a mouseover macro (don’t autoattack) without the boss gaining any Zealotry stacks
  • Use Cloak of Shadows to avoid damage from the Divine Mallets during Prayer for the Fallen


  • Apetagonizers spawn every 2 minutes, so hold your Vanish for them. Running multiple SS traits, Subterfuge and lining up vanish with the spawn will ensure high add-DPS.
  • If your raid is struggling with killing the adds in time, re-apply rupture to the boss shortly before they spawn, then vanish>garrote the boss, shadowstep/run to the adds and garrote both of them too for maximum DPS.
  • Rogues are a good candidate for carrying the second orb spawned by the Apetagonizers, since we can use Cloak of Shadows to avoid the damage and debuff from the first Tantrum, while also being able to feint any Reverberating Slams

Jadefire Masters:

  • Even though the fight is a cleave fight in the first place, your target is always to finish one of them quicker. So SS traits are an option, however your focus should be towards ST traits (DD/NP/TC/TTK)
  • Prey on the Weak is a great choice here, since we can always stun one of the 2 spirits of Xuen for 6 seconds, increasing the entire raids damage on them by 10%
  • Rogues can cloak and soak multiple traps without getting knocked up in the air. The Magma Trap debuff will still be applied, so make sure to not step into any traps after your first soak, unless you have Cloak of Shadows ready again
  • If the raid is struggling with killing the barrier during the Ring of Peace phase, hold your vanish for this part and triple-garrote three sections after they’ve been made vulnerable with the orbs. Step onto pets if possible to reach the barrier faster.
  • If you’re killing the mage second, try to have CoS ready for the soft-enrage phase in order to soak additional magma traps.


  • Jewels: Rogues are very good at maintaining the ruby debuff since we are melee and our GCD aligns with the 1second inner cooldown. We can also cloak mechanics and use our ranged ability to make sure it doesnt run out during heavy-movement situations. If your guild has enough rubies, go opal instead.
  • If you’re running SS and Subterfuge, you might wanna hold onto your vanish and use it right before you get teleported. This allows you to apply a buffed garrote on both Golems. Make sure to refresh your dots before you get teleported.
  • Focus on singletarget traits/talents, there’s only very little AoE going on (2 waves of adds, boss dies before the third) and it heavily favors burst AoE.
  • Make sure to rupture one or two adds while applying the ruby debuff with FoK, and use the additional CP/Energy gained to deal even more damage to the boss.
  • You can stack the lightning debuff on top of each other, since they only pulse every ~3seconds. That way you save space for your ranged DPS.
  • Drop the Liquid Gold outside in the hallway, you can cloak the debuff but it will drop it on the floor so make sure to not cloak too early
  • Important note: While the 100% Crit buff is running (Topaz carriers), do not rupture any adds, spam envenoms into the boss instead for Max Damage.


  • Multidotting on this boss is rarely worth it, unless you have to leave melee-range on your priority target you will not see a significant singletarget DPS increase by multidotting the second boss. Go for full singletarget traits/talents instead.
  • Prey on the Weak and Internal Bleeding are both very good choices here to help with the raptors. Internal Bleeding for slightly more damage, PotW for your raid to deal more damage. Keep in mind that even a 1CP Kidneyshot will still apply the full effect of PotW.
  • Hold your Cloak of Shadow for bad overlaps to get rid of the Cry of the Fallen. You can also help the raid by baiting Kragwa during Pakus Wrath while CoS is active (targets 1 of the 3 furthest targets).
  • Careful while refreshing the 2nd boss during Kimbul’s/Akunda’s Wrath

King Rastakhan: Most of this is based on the assumption of the P2 strategy that has all melee upstairs, and ranged stacking downstairs at the door

  • SS+Subterfuge are very good here and highly recommended if your raid is struggling with the Adds in P1 and P3
  • You can cloak the Frogs by running over them immediately after they spawn. Hold Sprint as well to get all 5 of them. Prioritize the Frogs that would jump towards the Deaths Door drop-spot.
  • Make sure to use Blind on CD during P2. When mindcontrolled the game will occasionally blind other people, including the tank, which can cause major issues.
  • You can cloak Deaths Door without it spawning. Do not do this if you’re using the aforementioned strategy unless you already have 4 Deaths Doors that block any incoming Orbs at the Entrance. (You have to pre-cloak when he’s casting it, so you immune the debuff itself.)
  • Hold Vanish for P3 when Melee are using BL to kill the adds. Prioritize the adds over the boss at all times (unless they’re still CCed).
  • Make good use of Feint+Crimson Vial in the last Phase, the Boss is not a DPS race and helping out healers here greatly increases the chances on a kill. Feint will be ready for every single Scorching Detonation.

Mekkatorque: Use Spark Bots for additional ressources on Normal/Heroic, only if close in range. Have a Step ready for the Wormhole phase.Other than that, there’s nothing special to do.

Stormwall Blockade:  Reapply dots when they swap positions on the boats. For most add spawns, you won’t have to hit them or only slightly. You might want to save a vanish for later spawns if it gets a bit messy and hectic to ensure that those adds won’t reach the boss. Pretty straight forward apart from that, hit the boss and don’t get hit.

Jaina: Nothing really special, Dot blocks/barrels for additional ressources/energy returns. Cloak Ring of Ice to stick to the boss a bit more. Maybe save the 2nd cloak for the intermission so you can speed run to one of the further images and interrupt that while not getting frozen. Dot the Water elemental a bit while you’re running down for extra energy in p3.

To be honest, most fights are pretty straight forward and don’t give a lot of options to do something special. Especially on heroic I haven’t gotten the possibility yet to test around different traits, setups etc. Will update this every now and then when I come across something new!

Update: With the recent Sub nerf on TFD and Sin being untouched, Sin will be the clear winner of this tier again. Sub might still see some value on ST fights, will see how Mythic ends up being. Outlaw has good potential on Jaina due to the ability of cleaving the Ice Blocks nicely and even gain ST from it due to the Wits trait. Personally, the only bosses where I could see Sub having value are Grong, Opulence (Shs->Evis during add waves) and maybe Stormwall Blockade.

Battle for Dazar’alor is looking to be a great tier for rogues, opening a lot of trait combinations that will make the playstyle a lot better. Also the fighting styles you’re coming up against look like rogues will find a lot of value, not only in the regard of soaking stuff, like on Jadefire Masters. ST and Cleave fights definitely are the area of Assassination, with Subtlety having a shot at pure ST fights. With the release of the tier in the next few days and Mythic starting the week after, I will try to update this guide as soon as possible, with talent/trait choices, but also with any small things I can find, that might give you an edge over others.

About the Author

My name is Tisumi, former Moderator of the Rogue Discord (Ravenholdt) and Raider in Myst on Draenor (~#50 World). I’m currently playing rogue, while focusing on Sub/Sin mostly. I will try to cover as much as possible in terms of gear, traits, maximizing DPS in general and maybe some special tactics in the new upcoming raid. During the first few weeks I will mainly focus on whichever spec is best for that specific encounter, however I will update it to cover all specs later on when I get the chance to play it. To have a second opinion, I will have Seliathan (Multiple R1’s and world firsts in M+ during Legion and BFA and currently in Familiar with Drama) to go over everything with me. For the Outlaw things I got some help from Loktark, also former Shadowblade on Ravenholdt, author of the Ravenholdt Outlaw guide, and a big community figure, especially among the Outlaw players.

For any further questions or feedback,  feel free to PM me or Seli on discord: Tisumi#6156  // Seliathan/Incarnated#3477



All in One Mythic Zul Guide for Sub Rogues

Welcome to the All in One Mythic Guide to Zul in the Uldir raid! This guide should sort you out with most if not all things Mythic Zul. If you have any questions feel free to ask in the #subtlety channel in the Ravenholdt discord.

Upcoming Changes

This strategy is significantly nerfed come 8.1, Subtlety Rogue is receiving several heavy nerfs across the class due to its potential to cheese this fight.

Shuriken Combo was removed making eviscerate hit 28.5% less, with a 24.3% buff given to Shuriken Storms damage; Both of these changes are bad because it kills crawgs faster, and priority target slower; On Zul however eviscerate isnt your only ability, so this change is only a 20% nerf to priority target damage.

While sub rogues are still the strongest at priority damage, they have been brought more in line to other classes.

  •  Shuriken Combo – Shuriken Combo is no longer listed as a Subtlety spell, removed from the spellbook entirely.
  •  Shuriken Storm Sprays shurikens at all targets within 10 yards, dealing [(18% ->20.7% of Attack power)] Physical damage.

The First Dance was changed to become a haste buff instead of a crit buff, which makes it fairly useless for Zul compared to its Crit iteration. This trait could even be potentially harmful as it could switch your reorigination array to haste from mastery.

Read about the comprehensive changelog here.

TLDR: Nerfs to priority target damage, increase to AoE cleave, the Sub Rogue Zul strategy will no longer be as strong of a strategy come 8.1


To sim for Zul, do 6 Target Patchwerk, the time depends on your raid group but it’s typically 3-4 minutes. 6 Target removes the multi-dotting condition, you’ll have consistent adds, and there are no meaningful mechanics besides DPS for sub rogues.

However, even that comes with a few quirks and differences to the typical Zul playstyle (e.g. Night’s Vengeance simming at more value than it “should” because it automatically causes multi-dotting). This means you can put priority_rotation=1 into the Custom APL box on Raidbots and use it on Top Gear, Gear Compare etc. Using this plus the usual 6T 4min sim, the sim should match Zul better.


Stat priority:

Mastery >> Critical Strike/Versatility >Haste

Talents: 2120013

Azerite: Archive of the Titans is extremely strong here; typically stat increase traits like Agi/Mastery/Crit will have strong value. Sub doesn’t really have any strong “AoE” traits, so you have to si your combinations using the settings in the previous section to be sure.


Raid keeps the crawgs alive so Sub Rogues can tunnel and burn Zul with Shuriken Storm/Shuriken Combo


Rotation is

  1. Keep Nightblade up on Zul
  2. Build combo points with Shuriken Storm
  3. Spend combo points/finish on 5+ (Eviscerate, unless you need to refresh Nightblade).
  4. SoD on CD along with ShD
  5. Use ShD with SoD/tornado or to prevent overcapping charges (which can happen a lot since the CD reduces massively in AoE) and in SoD/tornado. Don’t hold SoD/tornado you hold a ShD charge.


  • Keep Nightblade up on Zul, refresh so it doesn’t fall off during SoD/ShD but never refresh during ShD (refresh before if it will fall off during ShD).
  • Don’t reapply find weakness in dance apply it through vanish/stealth and do so right before tornado.
  • You can only fit 5 globals in dance (GCD isn’t affected by haste), and neither SoD nor ShD are on the GCD so you cast them at the same time; it does not matter which goes first.
  • When using tornado, use it one second before SoD/ShD to not waste a GCD in dance, and always go into dance on high combo points for maximum priority target damage.
  • See Kistler’s guide to see how you can deal with certain mechanics as a rogue.


Basically the same as the rotation but it goes as follows:

Potion/Shadow Blades > Shadowstrike > Nightblade> tornado > SoD/ShD > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > ShD> Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm


Screenshot of opener and how it relates to the rotation

1) Applied find weakness through vanish/stealth only.
2) Kept up  Nightblade and did not refresh inside ShD.
3) Delayed SoD/ShD by a gcd to not waste a GCD in dance.
4) Went into ShD on high combo points to get 3 eviscerates in ShD instead of just 2.

Note: the single Shuriken Storms are from tornado and the double ones are from when Shuriken Storm is cast by the player, it’s formatted that way in WCL.


Rogues in the Battle for Azeroth Pre-Patch: What’s Changing

It’s finally here: the most awkward month in WoW.
With the Battle for Azeroth pre-patch, a.k.a. Patch 8.0.1, landing on July 17, a four-week period begins in which we’re caught in an eerie limbo between the outgoing expansion (Legion) and the incoming one (BfA). All of our rogue class changes will take effect — RIP, beloved artifact weapons! — but we won’t be able to level from 110 to 120, claim our new Azerite traits or experience the full power (and spellbook) of our max-level rogues. We’ll have to wait for Aug. 14 and the official launch of the BfA expansion for that to happen.
In the meantime, the next few weird and wild weeks offer a pretty excellent opportunity to get caught up on exactly what’s changing for each rogue spec as we shift into the new expansion. Here’s a brief rundown of resources we recommend if you’re looking for clear and helpful summaries of everything that’s changing in the world of rogue. I’ll keep this list updated with the bestest, most up-to-datest resources I come across; feel free to ping me on Twitter (or hit up the Ravenholdt Twitter account) with recommendations!

Written Guides

Video Guides

(By Infexious of Infexious Gaming)

Expert Analysis

(These are Wowhead articles featuring a Ravenholdt expert panel)

Official Patch Notes

Below is a copypasta of Blizzard’s official pre-patch notes on the rogue changes taking effect July 17:
  • Assassination
    • Many Talents and PvP Talents have been adjusted.
    • New Talents include:
      • Hidden Blades – Every 2 seconds, gain increased damage for your next Fan of Knives, stacking up to 20 times.
      • Poison Bomb – Envenom and Rupture have a chance per combo point spent to smash a vial of poison at the target’s location, creating a pool of acidic death that deals Nature damage over time to all enemies within it.
  • Outlaw
    • Saber Slash is now Sinister Strike.
    • Run Through is now Dispatch.
    • Many Talents and PvP Talents have been adjusted.
    • New Talents include:
      • Blade Rush – Charge to your target with your blades out, dealing great damage to the target and all other nearby enemies. While Blade Flurry is active, damage to nearby enemies is increased. Generates Energy.
      • Loaded Dice – Activating Adrenaline Rush causes your next Roll the Bones to grant at least two matches.
  • Subtlety
    • Many Talents and PvP Talents have been adjusted.
    • New Talents include:
      • Secret Technique – Finishing move that creates shadow clones of yourself. You and your shadow clones deal damage to both the primary target and nearby enemies.
      • Shuriken Tornado – Focus intently, and then release a Shuriken Storm every second for the next 4 seconds.
Finally, for more general information regarding the changes in store for the pre-patch and beyond, it’s hard to beat Wowhead’s comprehensive survival guide.

Battle for Azeroth Patch 8.0.1 Rogue Quickstart Guides

These bare-bones guides, written by Fuu, provide basic recommendations on optimal talents and DPS rotations to use in end-game raiding during the Battle for Azeroth. We’ll post more comprehensive spec guides for Level 120 end-game as we get closer to the official BfA launch on Aug. 14.

Also take a look at our BfA/8.0.1 “What’s Changing” post, which includes a bunch of links to additional guides and other resources.


Single Target:

2210021 – Pre patch. T1 Talents are close so best is to sim all 3.

Multi Target:

2210023 – standard AoE
2230023 – with resets


Combo Builder (filler):

Fan of Knives (2+ targets OR at full stacks of Hidden Blades) > Mutilate

Finisher (single target):

Rupture* > Envenom

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Finisher (multi target):

Crimson Tempest* > Rupture* > Envenom

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Opener (single target):

Marked for Death (if talented), Potion

GarroteMutilateMutilateRuptureVendettaToxic Blade -…- VanishGarrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote

*replace the first Builder after Vendetta with Fan of Knives if you use Hidden Blades.

Opener (multi target):

Marked for Death (if talented), Potion

Garrote (up to 3 targets) – Build to 4+- Crimson Tempest – Build to 4+- RuptureVendettaToxic Blade -…- VanishGarrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote


Use Marked for Death on low Combo Points.
Use Vendetta on cooldown.
Use Vanish if Garrote has ~6 seconds left .
Use Toxic Blade on cooldown.
Use Blindside if you have a proc and not on full cp, always below 30%.

Use Garrote if it has ~6 secs left (and is not empowered) and you are not on full cp.
Use Garrote if it has ~1 secs left.

Use Finisher According to Finisher priority with 4+ Combo Points.
Use Builder According to Builder priority with less then full Combo Points.


Crimson Tempest – refresh with 2 or less seconds remaining.
Rupture – refresh with less then ~5-7 seconds remaining.
Rupture – on all Targets.
Garrote – on all Targets.


Single Target:

2010023 – for pre patch ONLY under the condition that you use Mantle of the master Assassin and T21 4p (likely without T20).

Multi Target:

2010022 – default choice
2010021 – alternative


Combo Builder (filler): 

Pistol Shot* > Sinister Strike

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Finisher (single target + multi target):

Roll the Bones* > Between the Eyes* > Dispatch

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Reroll logic

Grand Melee or Ruthless Precision or any 2+ buffs.

Opener (single target + multi target):

Marked for Death (if talented), Potion, Adrenalin Rush
Note: Adrenalin Rush will put you out of stealth, you can enter stealth or open with Sinister Strike.

Ambush – build to 5+ – Roll the Bones
*use Blade Rush after Ambush on 2+ targets


Use Adrenaline Rush on cooldown.
Use Marked for Death on low Combo Points.
Use Blade Flurry on 2+ targets.
Use Blade Rush on cooldown in single target
Use Blade Rush during Blade Flurry on 2+ targets.

Use Finisher according to Finisher priority if you have 5 Points. Reduce the Amount by 1 if Broadside or Opportunity is up(by 2 if both are up).
Use Builder according to the Builder priority with less then full Combo Points.


Pistol Shot – only if it procs and you have 4 or less cp.(3 when Broadside or Opportunity is up, 2 if both are up)
Roll the Bones – refresh if less then 3 seconds remaining or you have the wrong buffs (see reroll logic)
Between the Eyes – only if Ruthless Precision is up
Vanish – utility cooldown without Mantle of the master Assassin
Vanish – Use it before KS/BR if you use Mantle of the master Assassin


Single Target:


Multi Target:



Combo Builder:

Shuriken Storm (3+ targets) > Shadowstrike > Shuriken Storm (2 targets) > Backstab

Finisher (single target):

Nightblade* (Not during Shadow Dance) > Secret Technique* (during Symbols of Death) > Eviscerate

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Finisher (multi target):

Nightblade* (Not during Shadow Dance) > Secret Technique* > Eviscerate

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Opener (single target):

pre pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion, Shadow Blades

ShadowstrikeNightbladeSymbols of DeathShadow DanceShadowstrikeShadowstrikeEviscerateShadowstrikeShadowstrikeEviscerateShadow Dance
*use Secret Technique instead of the first Evi if you have it talented

Opener (multi target):

pre pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion, Shadow Blades

ShadowstrikeNightbladeSymbols of DeathShadow Dance
Shadowstrike/Shuriken Storm depending on target count.
Finish with 5+. Use Secret Technique as first Finisher in dance, Eviscerate for the following.


Use Symbols of Death on CD.
Use Marked for Death on low Combo Points.
Use Shadow Blades on CD.
Use Vanish with 1 or less secounds of Find Weakness remaining.

Use Shadow Dance with 2 or less Combo Points when Symbols of Death is up.
Use Shadow Dance with 2 or less Combo Points when you are about to cap on charges.

Use Finisher according to Finisher priority if you have 4+ Combo Points(MfD) or 5+ with (DS).
Use Builder according to the Builder priority with less then full Combo Points.


Nightblade – refresh it with less then 4,2 sec remaining (Mfd) or less then 4,8 sec remaining (DS).
Nightblade (exception) – refresh it shortly before symbols comes up if the duration is to low(less then remaining cooldown + 10).
Nightblade – on all targets if they survive for 12+ secounds.
Secret Technique – Preferably use during Shadow Dance, use on CD with more targets due to cdr.


Rotation and Talent choice can be slightly different in the pre-patch.

Talent Notation:

Talents are distinguished by talent number in row order. 0 signifies free choice.

NOTE: The shown talent is an Example, the talent for your specification can be found in the Talent section of each spec.

Therefore if the talents are listed as:

  • 2010032

that means that you need to pick:

  • In row 1, take talent number 2
  • In row 2, take any talent
  • In row 3, take talent number 1
  • In row 4, take any talent
  • In row 5, take any talent
  • In row 6, take talent number 3
  • In row 7, take talent number 2

Don Jose’s Rogue Leveling Advice

Ahoy! I am Don Jose#9643, one of the moderators of the Ravenholdt Discord community. With the release of allied races and the revamp of the level-up experience (increased mob hp, zone scaling, higher xp requirements to level, etc.) we’ve been fielding a lot of questions about the level-up experience for rogues. This document is a TL;DR “guide” of 1-90. Bear in mind this content is purely my opinion.

During the level-up experience rogues lack real AoE tools until level 63 and are strongest in 1v1 situations. You want to use Sap, Blind, Cheap Shot, and Gouge to try and even the odds if you find yourself facing a 2 or 3 pull. Even at level 63, your energy regeneration might not be enough to solidly sustain AoE. Begin combat from Stealth whenever possible, and remember that you won’t get Vanish until level 48. Bummer.

My pick for a leveling spec:

  1. #1: Subtlety
  2. #2: Outlaw (at level 22 w/Ambush)
  3. I would not level as Assassination.


15: Gloomblade or Master of Subtlety (see Advice below)
30: Nightstalker
45: Vigor
60: Soothing Darkness
75: Strike from the Shadows
90: Dark Shadow (burst) usually, or Enveloping Shadows (tough mobs)

Fantastic burst
Great passive self-heals and healing between pulls
Superior mobility
Fast play
Against 2+ mobs, Shadow Dance gives you another burst/stealth phase.
At level 42 Shadowstrike ports you to your target – great mobility!

Against mighty mobs, might fall behind Assassination or Outlaw
Backstab is often weak while soloing unless you waste time stunning/controlling mobs

In my opinion, Subtlety is the most versatile and fun leveling spec. It has great burst and mobility. If mobs survive your initial burst, Gloomblade will be the best option, as you likely won’t be able to Backstab them without juggling CCs-all of which is a waste of time if you could just kill them with a Gloomblade.

15: Quick Draw
30: Hit and Run. Grappling Hook has a lot of pathing issues, but if you’re in flat areas it’s probably more useful.
45: Vigor
60: Iron Stomach
75: Any, but I preferred Dirty Tricks
90: Killing Spree for solo, Cannonball Barrage for dungeons

Great at slowing runners (Pistol Shot, Between the Eyes)
Ranged stun with Between the Eyes
Sustained damage
Superior ranged if necessary (Pistol Shot/Between the Eyes)
Grappling Hook is solid mobility if pathing issues don’t occur (flat terrain)
Bribe is awesome if it works

Overall inferior mobility – Outlaw rogues have to talent Grappling Hook – Assassination and Subtlety get Shadowstep baseline
Crimson Vial is a reliable on-demand heal, but costs energy. All three specs have Crimson Vial, but the other two have additional healing options (Leeching Poison/Soothing Darkness)
Inferior burst to Subtlety
Generally “slow” play until Roll the Bones at level 40, and then play becomes RNG-based

You want to be sure to Ambush from stealth and use Saber Slash to get to a 5 combo point Run Through. Only use Pistol Shot for its slow or on Opportunity procs (free use). Use Between the Eyes as a stun or a ranged hit. Use/abuse Bribe at level 54; this can actually be a mighty tool! Once you unlock Roll the Bones, maintain a buff as much as possible, but don’t waste energy re-rolling.

15: Master Poisoner – this boosts Leeching Poison (see level 60)
30: Nightstalker for speed or 1v1 or Subterfuge for strong mobs and 1v2/3
45: Vigor
60: Leeching Poison
75: Any, depending on your playstyle
90: Toxic Blade

Heavy DoT damage can serve as prolonged AoE
Has decent mobility with Shadowstep
Can DoT from ranged

Too much damage is reliant on DoTs
Energy regeneration is reliant on DoTs
No Envenom until level 36
Mutilate starves you for energy at lower levels

If you insist on leveling as Assassination, wait until level 36 for Envenom.

A note about Dungeons:
At the time of writing this, I haven’t tried low level dungeons since the changes hit, but I’ve heard that they now take longer and yield less XP than questing, on average. If you opt to run dungeons, know that your trash damage is going to be less than many other specs. As Assassination you can experiment with multi-dotting mobs, but overall you will probably just do better focusing on one target at a time. Your time to shine is against bosses. At level 63 this may pick up significantly. If you have experience with the 63-100 level range let me know!


Class Discords: The Basics

In the past, websites, forums, and IRC were the primary sources of information about World of Warcraft, along with word-of-mouth. When Discord launched it quickly became the go-to resource for game communities. There was no manual–we were all pioneers as users and leaders of the platform. Over the past year we have learned a lot about the strengths and weaknesses of Discord as a chat client that is different/unique from anything that came before it.

Recently there has been a lot of discussion amongst the Ravenholdt moderation team as to how we could improve, and how class Discords in general could improve. I decided to write this guide because there is still a large volume of users that plunge into the deep end of Discord and are overwhelmed. They don’t know the basics and standards across Discords–and, in some cases, there aren’t standards–and feel nervous about asking for help or don’t understand how to find the information they need. On the flipside, the community feels exhausted (especially around patch/ptr update days) by the sheer volume of identical questions they get every day.

In this guide I will attempt to educate you on the baseline tools to have a good Discord experience. I will do my best to keep this brief. You need to bear in mind that each class server has its own rules, expectations, and organization, which I will get into later.

You poor, poor souls…

Welcome to Discord. I will be your guide.

Ahoy! I am Don Jose#9643 and I am one of the moderators of the Ravenholdt Discord community; in addition, I have leveled all classes to 110 and at least lurk the majority of other class Discords. I consider myself a casual player because although I do raid, I do not push high M+ keys or compete in any Mythic Raid races. Anybody who knows me or hangs out in Ravenholdt knows that I love helping players, memes, and generally hate RNG.

Note: I welcome all constructive criticism (spare me the “lol ur guide sux” DMs, thanks) and suggestions. You are free to spread this guide to all corners of the Intarwebz; in fact, I encourage it. We are all a part of Discord and how the communities will function and feel.

“A BETTER COMMUNITY STARTS WITH THE SELF.-Me, 2k17 and probably other inspiring/important people

Joining a Discord Community

Discord has a ​web client​ (opened in your web browser), a ​mobile app​, and a desktop client (​you download and run it like software). The Web Client and PC Client are more or less interchangeable, but the mobile app does have some important differences that I’ll mention where appropriate. This guide is intended to be relatively TL;DR: so I’m not going to walk you through all the functionality of them. If you need/want more information, head to discord’s website: ​

To join a Discord community, you will need a link to that specific server community.

Links generally look like this:

(note the “” in the URL. Beware of false URLs!)

Or like this:

Or like this:


The majority of users will get invitations from guildies, friends, or forums.

Check the Channels

On the left side of the web and desktop clients, you will see that server’s channel list. These are the organizational ​topics of discussion​. Keep in mind that these are generally suggestions; players will often go off-topic. That’s one difference between a Discord server and a forum: these are living, breathing, real-time chats that move quickly.

Let’s use Ravenholdt as an example:

At the top, you’ll see the server you are currently on.

FOR MOBILE USERS:​ On the ​mobile app, ​channels are listed when you hit the top left ​=​ button​.



Below that, you can see channel headers (note the “PLEASE READ” over our #announcements and #resources-and-faq channels)



Spec Discussion – Check Pins

I’ll talk about pins soon. They are ​very important to universal discord use. If a Discord server has class or spec channels, ​that is not a guarantee that discussion will always be on-topic. This varies from server to server. Sometimes it’s just where players of that spec congregate.



If a server has a “general” or “off-topic” tab they are often less strictly moderated and feature random discussion topics.




How individual servers word these channels will be different, but they all have them.​ You are responsible for the rules of the server, whether you read them or not. ​If you are ever confused or unclear about the rules, send a direct message to a moderator by right-clicking their name and selecting “message.” This is called ​Direct Messaging​, or “DMing.”

Familiarize Yourself with the Mod Team

Every discord has moderators. They are always listed at or near the top of the user list, which can be found on the right of the screen.

Again, using Ravenholdt as an example:

You can open or close the member list using the “People” icon, circled. It’s usually open by default. This is the same button/placement on the MOBILE APP.

Sometimes moderators have hierarchies with various titles. In Ravenholdt, our founders and team-leaders have purple names and are referred to (lovingly) as “Despots”.





Many servers have bots. I’m not going to get into them because they vary greatly in functionality and control–but they’re usually there to automate things like Raidbots simming, role/color requests, and so on.


Our moderators are are referred to (equally lovingly) as “Shadowblades”.

It me!



Moderation from server to server varies a lot, but in general, they are there to keep the peace, enforce rules, and be a resource for information (or somebody who can point you to the correct resource). Treat them with respect and you will have it returned, 9.9 / 10 times.

A Note: All mods are not around 24/7. They are volunteers, unpaid (as far as I’m aware), and they are not your personal helpdesk. Please consult the FAQs and the Pinned Messages before you reach out to them about game questions. If you see harassment, or feel like something wrong has occurred in the Discord chat, reach out to them with your concerns immediately. Do not escalate situations. As a final reminder, each Discord server operates independently. What might be considered harassment on Ravenholdt might be totally acceptable on another, so long as it doesn’t violate Discord’s TOS.

Check the Pinned Messages 

If you’ve already gone on Discord you have likely seen push pin emojis and seen people saying “check the pins,” or; “it’s in the pins,” and so on.

What are “the pins?”

They will vary from server to server, but generally they are ​the most important, up-to-date, and relevant/frequently-asked questions and guides.

FOR MOBILE USERS: The pins are located behind the ​“…” button in the top right corner of the server.

Note how when you open the pins in #outlaw I have listed relevant links to the guides, as well as a post about the current tier set and an external link to a post about UI Lag Tolerance.

Each channel (such as #outlaw or #pvp) will have its ​own​ pinned messages.


​ You are going to get meme’d into orbit if you join a Class Discord and ask a pinned question (ie. a question that is answered in a pinned message). The “regulars” of ​any community see it happen tens of hundreds of times per day, and it gets really old, really fast, to give the same answer over and over. ​That’s why pinned messages exist. You are not the first person with your question and you will not be the last.

Imagine being a retail clerk and there’s a sign on your counter that says, “Restrooms are to the left,” but hundreds of times per day customers come in and ask you, “Where are the restrooms?” when you’re busy helping another customer. It’s a similar situation! There’s nothing wrong with having questions, but when you don’t put in that minimum of work/research yourself you just look lazy and entitled.

Why am I being told to ‘Sim It’ or ‘Sim Yourself’? 

​TL;DR​: WoW is a complex game. Legion, in particular, introduced a lot of factors which make it difficult to tell if X talent, gear piece, etc. is superior. Running fight simulations (“simming”) is one of the best tools we have to try and get a more data-driven, accurate answer. WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU IS NOT BEST FOR EVERYONE. Simming is the “most-honest” answer. When people tell you this they aren’t trying to “just get rid of you,” they’re trying to be honest with you and help you get the best answer.

How do I sim? 

Sim-yourself​ is a guide to using SimC (SimulationCraft) which is a powerful but somewhat complicated tool that runs thousands of simulated fights to try and determine your performance (and from that, what is better or worse for you).

If that is intimidating or too complicated, there are alternatives:

  1. ​Raidbots runs SimC with a newbie-friendly user interface.
  2. Ask Mr. Robot, aka. AMR, runs their own simulator​ ​with a newbie-friendly user interface.

How do I become a ‘regular’?   ​

Hang out on a server a lot. Be generally respectful. Don’t brag unless you’ve got logs to back you up (and even still, don’t brag, that’s annoying). Help out others. Have some fun, meme around a little. Have you ever joined a new friend group? It’s like that. Don’t be obnoxious, respect that some of these people have known each other for years, and you will eventually be included into the recognizable community figures/leaders/scallywags.

Why is it so chaotic/spammy? People seem really cranky!

​The chances are overwhelming that you logged on to the Discord after a ​big announcement, PTR datamine, or patch notes​. During those times the traffic to class Discords surges tremendously, and things get absolutely wild. Don’t judge the server by those days. Mods will have their hands full and there will be a LOT of people spamming the same questions over and over. Don’t be that person.

Other Resources:

Hero Damage: ​A website dedicated to the most current trinket, talent, relic, and gear simulations. It’s a great resource to check if you just looted a trinket or relic and have ​no idea if it’s an upgrade or not.

Ravenholdt: It’s my guide, so I get to plug the rogue website/resource. Ravenholdt is a go-to for various rogue-related content, but also has other guides such as the simming guide I linked above.

Class and Community Discord Links:

Community Discord Servers:  A list of links to the current class discord servers.  If your server is missing from that list please contact Wowhead to have yours added.



Rogue WeakAuras

Playing any class at more than just a basic level requires keeping track of timers, procs, charges, and more. It is next to impossible to do this without help and there are several addons that are designed to do this for you. One of the most popular is WeakAuras.

WeakAuras is highly customizable and quite complex but once you have installed the base addon, if you aren’t up to creating your own UI, you can import a WA set created by someone else. Because everyone has different preferences, you may have to try out more than one to figure out what works best for you. Below are links to WAs created by rogues for rogues.

Gray_hound’s WA is an all inclusive package that serves all three specs and switches automatically when you change spec.

Notter’s collection is Assassination oriented but includes both other specs as well.

If you enjoy Infexious Gaming’s videos, you may want to check out his WAs.

Potato has  set for each spec.

Mystler also has a nice selection.

If you want to search for more options or specific WAs, is a searchable database collection designed specifically for sharing WAs and other similar addon elements.


Sim Yourself

“Sim yourself.” More often than not, this is the reply that you’ll get when you ask about the best gear to equip or how stats scale for your character. But what does it mean to sim yourself? Why do we care? And, most importantly, how do we do it?

Because of the way that World of Warcraft is dealing with gear in Legion (e.g., a random chance that a new gear drop will be immediately upgraded in various ways), there are so many variables possible that in most cases there is no single Best in Slot. The gear and attributes that are best for you depend entirely on what else you have equipped and what content you are planning to take on. What this means is, if you are interested in optimizing your DPS for the content that you are playing, you will need a method for figuring out exactly how what you have interacts with any new gear that you might acquire so that you can pinpoint which setup will work best for you.

One of the most effective ways of doing this is by using a program called SimulationCraft, often abbreviated SimCraft or even SimC. It’s available as a downloadable program as well as an in-game add on. Once you get used to simming yourself, it’s not difficult – but it does take a little setting up. Another add on called Pawn is very handy for applying what you learned from your sim.

This is a quick and dirty guide to simming yourself to get the most out of your gear.

The first thing that you need to do is download and install SimulationCraft from its official website.

The next thing is to install and enable the SimulationCraft add on, which is available from Curse.

Note: If you don’t want to use the add on, SimCraft can import your data from the Armory. To do this, follow the instructions on SimulationCraft. Be aware that this is often a less optimal method because not only is the Armory occasionally out of date, but also you will need to log in and out of game to update it, which is less convenient than using the add on.

Open SimulationCraft and select the Simulate tab.

Open World of Warcraft, and make sure that your character’s spec, gear, and talents are set the way you want them. In your chat box type /simc.

This will open a box of highlighted code. On your keyboard, press C while holding down Ctrl to copy the code (if you are on a Mac, press while holding down ).

Return to SimulationCraft and paste (with Ctrl V, or ⌘ V on a Mac) the code into the Simulate window. Note: you can opt to either 1) paste your code after the code that is automatically in the box, or 2) delete the default code and replace it with your pasted code.

Select the Options tab and then the Scaling tab.

Check Enable Scaling.

We are rogues, so under Stats to Scale, select Agility, Crit Rating, Haste Rating, Mastery Rating, and Versatility Rating.

Click Simulate! in the bottom right corner.

It will probably take a little time for your simulation to run; the more powerful your computer, the quicker it’ll be. When it is done, you will see a screen that looks like this:

Scroll down a little. You will see your talents and artifact build along with a whole lot of other lovely data, but there are two things that are of immediate interest.

The first is your estimated DPS. This is just an estimate based on what you have equipped. Can you pull this number in a boss fight? Can you pull more? It doesn’t matter! The only reason that we care about this number is to use it as a baseline.

The second is your Scale Factors. This tells you your Scale Ranking, which is basically what stats are most important with your current build.

As you can see, according to this sim my stat priority at the moment is:

Agility >  Versatility > Crit ~=Mastery > Haste

Those priorities are completely customized to me. By comparison, if you look at a reputable rogue DPS guide like Stjern’s, it will tell you:

Agility > Mastery > Versatility > Crit > Haste

His stat priority is a place to start. With my gear and how I am optimized, my stat priority has now changed. This is exactly why no one can tell you what is best in slot for you without a sim.

When you get new gear, equip it, sim yourself again, and check out that estimated DPS. If it goes up, the new gear is probably an upgrade.

Pawn is an add on that works with your sim data to compare items in-game and give you an idea whether or not a piece of loot is an upgrade or not.

Install and enable Pawn, which is available on Curse.

Open World of Warcraft and you will see a Pawn button on your Character pane.

Now go back to your SimulationCraft results and find the Pawn string, which is right after your Stat Ranking. Highlight and copy the Pawn string, including the open and close parentheses and everything in between.

Back in game, click the Pawn button to open the Pawn window. Select the Scale tab.


Click Manual.

You should see a screen with more options. Click Import.

Paste the Pawn string from SimulationCraft into the text box and click Okay.

This will show you your new stat weights. Go back to the Scale tab and make sure that Show this scale in tooltips is checked.

Close the Pawn window. Now, when you look at gear in your bag, you can immediately tell whether or not it is an upgrade based on your sim.

If you prefer to watch and listen rather than read, Infexious has you covered.

Now you have the basics.

All of these tools, and the theories behind them, were created by the WoW theorycrafting community. Theorycrafters use math to analyze game mechanics. This can give us insight into the way the game works, which in turn allows development of these tools and best practices for playing your class and your spec.

And this SimCraft tutorial is just the beginning. If you want to learn how to hot-swap gear to compare sims, learn how to sim relics, or just learn more about SimCraft and theorycrafting, here are a few resources.

For quick simulations you can also use the Raidbots bot in the Ravenholdt Discord. Just type !sim -h in Discord for instructions. For an online solution, check out the Raidbots website.


Log analysis – How do I do it?

Babysteps to rank 1.

*Note: I am not going into details what each spell does, if you are curious as to how each spell work. Then check the actual guide here.

You’ve been wondering for quite a while, what am I doing wrong?
Well, instead of asking other people, then I will give you the resources that you need, the find out yourself!

Practically, I’d like to give you an introduction on how to read your own logs, to see where you either waste resources in form of energy, combo points or where you’ve just made a common mistake in your rotation or something a like.


Step 1 – Buffs and debuffs

1.1 – Elaborate Planning
Elaborate Planning is one of the buffs that we want high uptime on.

Elaborate Planning

This is a better example of good uptime of Elaborate Planning. In general you will never be able to get 100% uptime, as you will have to drop the buff for rotation reasons or because mechanics prevent it. In general aim for 80% and above.

1.2 – Rupture
Rupture is our main bleed, and due to that, we want an uptime as close to 100%.


This is what a proper uptime on Rupture looks like. If you have around 98% and above, then you’re doing just fine. But remember only to refresh it during the Pandemic effect period.

1.3 – Garrote
Garrote is a filler bleed, which we want as high uptime on as possible. Note: When you play Exsanguinate, then the uptime on is usually lower


This example is from an Exsanguinate log, so it means that you should atleast have 83% or above on average. Most people actually manage to have +85% with Exsanguinate,

Step 2 – Resource waste
Resource capping comes in two ways mainly as rogue. In form of combo points and energy waste.

2.1 – Combo point waste Combo Point

Combo point capping is literally a DPS loss. Therefore we want as close to 0 combo points wasted for each individual spell. On the logs shown above, the person wasted 1 combo point on Kingsbane and 25 combo points from Seal Fate. This means that he lost out on a lot of potentional DPS.
Keep wasted as close to 0 as possible! Seal Fate can be tricky to work with!

2.2 – Energy waste Energy

When you can either analyze the numbers as shown under combo points or look at the graph. In general, you are never allowed to energy cap, as it is a DPS loss. Always keep your energy level beneath your cap!
Note: You will always cap at some points, no matter how well you perform. Due to the Urge to Kill.


Step 1 – Buffs and debuffs

1.1 – Roll the Bones
Roll the Bones is Outlaws version of the old Slice n’ Dice.

Roll the Bones

Roll the Bones is your main buff, this should be as high as your uptime on the boss and even closer to 100% than any other buff, as it’s easy to refresh with such a long duration. Plan ahead!

1.2 – Ghostly Strikes
Practically the only debuff worth noting. Keep this as high as your boss uptime or +99%, but remember only to refresh it during the Pandemic effect period.

Ghostly Strikes

Not much to note. Just keep this as high as your boss uptime or +99%.

Step 2 – Resource waste

2.1 – Combo point waste Combo points
Combo point capping is literally a DPS loss. Therefore we want as close to 0 combo points wasted for each individual spell. On the logs shown above, the person wasted a lot of combo points on different spells. The only spells that is excused here is Marked for Death and Curse of the Dreadblades.
Keep wasted as close to 0 as possible!
Note: Curse of the Dreadblades will always be very high on wasted combo points

2.2 – Energy waste Energy

When you can either analyze the numbers as shown under combo points or look at the graph. In general, you are never allowed to energy cap, as it is a DPS loss. Always keep your energy level beneath your cap!


Step 1 – Buffs and debuffs

1.1 – Symbols of Death
Symbols of Death is a flat damage amplifer, and therefore we want 100% uptime. There’s no excuse to not have 100% uptime. Symbols of Death

This is a perfect played subtlety rogue. Let this be a prime example on Symbols of Death uptime. 100% uptime is not impressive if you cast it with 30 seconds remaining, remember to only refresh it during the Pandemic effect period.

1.2 – Nightblade
Subtletys version of Rupture.

This is a close to perfectly played subtlety rogue. This log is from Graum, however Nightblade fades during the stampede. The player also makes a minor mistake at the end, but despite that the uptime is still a good example what to aim for. Go for +90%! Keep in mind that using fx. 4 combo points Nightblades will not be worth it DPS wise, so plan ahead!

Step 2 – Resource waste

2.1 – Combo point waste Combo points

Combo point capping is literally a DPS loss. Therefore we want as close to 0 combo points wasted for each individual spell. On the logs shown above, the player played almost perfectly as a minimum of Shadow Techniques combo points were wasted.
Keep wasted as close to 0 as possible!

2.2 – Energy waste energy

When you can either analyse the numbers as shown under combo points or look at the graph. In general, you are never allowed to energy cap, as it is a DPS loss. Always keep your energy level beneath your cap!
Note: If you proc Energetic Stabbing a lot, you might energy cap.

I’m doing it all right… But I still can’t rank like others.

If you don’t have BiS legendaries, then you can’t compete with people who have. So sadly, if you want to play competetive, then you need to obtain a BiS legendary.

Debuffs like Blood of the Assassinated also has a giant impact on ranking. Same with combo points from Shadow Techniques. If you don’t believe in RNGesus, then you won’t rank.

Your gear will never be on par with someone elses. It is not the old times where everyone was close to equal. Someone will always have way better gear than you.

You might simply not be padding the meters enough… However, I do not advise risking your raids performance just to get a rank. Bosses dead > Ranks.

Want to go even further into details?

If you wish to go even further into details, knowing that your damage on x spell is good. Then I would recommend comparing your damage to the APL or even sim your own character and compare it to the sim. If your sim has 25 M more damage on Rupture, then you might be doing something wrong.