All in One Mythic Zul Guide for Sub Rogues

Welcome to the All in One Mythic Guide to Zul in the Uldir raid! This guide should sort you out with most if not all things Mythic Zul. If you have any questions feel free to ask in the #subtlety channel in the Ravenholdt discord.

Upcoming Changes

This strategy is significantly nerfed come 8.1, Subtlety Rogue is receiving several heavy nerfs across the class due to its potential to cheese this fight.

Shuriken Combo was previously nerfed on the PTR from  ̶8̶ % -> 5%, with a very slight buff given to Shuriken Storms damage; Both of these changes are bad because it kills crawgs faster, and priority target slower; however in the latest build Shuriken Combo it was removed entirely. Which means eviscerate hits 28.5% less than live with its removal.

  •  Shuriken Combo  – Shuriken Storm increases the damage of your next Eviscerate by   ̶8̶ % -> 5% for each enemy hit beyond the first. Stacks up to 5 times.
    Shuriken Combo is no longer listed as a Subtlety spell, removed from the spellbook entirely as of latest PTR build.

 

  •  Shuriken Storm Sprays shurikens at all targets within 10 yards, dealing [(18% ->20.7% of Attack power)] Physical damage.

The First Dance was changed to become a haste buff instead of a crit buff, which makes it fairly useless for AoE compared to its Crit iteration.

Read about the comprehensive changelog here.

TLDR: Nerfs to priority target damage, the Sub Rogue Zul strategy will no longer be as strong of a strategy come 8.1, other strategies will most likely be recommended instead.

Simming

To sim for Zul, do 6 Target Patchwerk, the time depends on your raid group but it’s typically 3-4 minutes. 6 Target removes the multi-dotting condition, you’ll have consistent adds, and there are no meaningful mechanics besides DPS for sub rogues.

However, even that comes with a few quirks and differences to the typical Zul playstyle (e.g. Night’s Vengeance simming at more value than it “should” because it automatically causes multi-dotting). Mystler has already updated the Raidbots nightly build. This means you can put priority_rotation=1 into the Custom APL box on Raidbots and use it on Top Gear, Gear Compare etc. Using this plus the usual 6T 4min sim, the sim should match Zul better. (Just don’t forget to remove that option from the custom APL field again when running normal sims.)

Gearing

Stat priority:

Mastery >> Critical Strike/Versatility >Haste

Talents: 2120013

Azerite: The First Dance and Archive of the Titans are both extremely strong here.

Strategy

Raid keeps the crawgs alive so Sub Rogues can tunnel and burn Zul with Shuriken Storm/Shuriken Combo

Rotation

Rotation is

  1. Keep Nightblade up on Zul
  2. Build combo points with Shuriken Storm
  3. Spend combo points/finish on 5+ (Eviscerate, unless you need to refresh Nightblade).
  4. SoD on CD along with ShD
  5. Use ShD with SoD/tornado or to prevent overcapping charges (which can happen a lot since the CD reduces massively in AoE) and in SoD/tornado. Don’t hold SoD/tornado you hold a ShD charge.

Tips

  • Keep Nightblade up on Zul, refresh so it doesn’t fall off during SoD/ShD but never refresh during ShD (refresh before if it will fall off during ShD).
  • Don’t reapply find weakness in dance apply it through vanish/stealth and do so right before tornado.
  • You can only fit 5 globals in dance (GCD isn’t affected by haste), and neither SoD nor ShD are on the GCD so you cast them at the same time; it does not matter which goes first.
  • When using tornado, use it one second before SoD/ShD to not waste a GCD in dance, and always go into dance on high combo points for maximum priority target damage.
  • See Kistler’s guide to see how you can deal with certain mechanics as a rogue.

Opener

Basically the same as the rotation but it goes as follows:

Potion/Shadow Blades > Shadowstrike > Nightblade> tornado > SoD/ShD > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > ShD> Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm > Eviscerate > Shuriken Storm

 

Screenshot of opener and how it relates to the rotation

1) Applied find weakness through vanish/stealth only.
2) Kept up  Nightblade and did not refresh inside ShD.
3) Delayed SoD/ShD by a gcd to not waste a GCD in dance.
4) Went into ShD on high combo points to get 3 eviscerates in ShD instead of just 2.

Note: the single Shuriken Storms are from tornado and the double ones are from when Shuriken Storm is cast by the player, it’s formatted that way in WCL.

Read More...

Battle for Azeroth Patch 8.0.1 Rogue Quickstart Guides

These bare-bones guides, written by Fuu, provide basic recommendations on optimal talents and DPS rotations to use in end-game raiding during the Battle for Azeroth. We’ll post more comprehensive spec guides for Level 120 end-game as we get closer to the official BfA launch on Aug. 14.

Also take a look at our BfA/8.0.1 “What’s Changing” post, which includes a bunch of links to additional guides and other resources.

Talents

Single Target:

3210021
2210021 – Pre patch. T1 Talents are close so best is to sim all 3.

Multi Target:

2210023 – standard AoE
2230023 – with resets

Gameplay

Combo Builder (filler):

Fan of Knives (2+ targets OR at full stacks of Hidden Blades) > Mutilate

Finisher (single target):

Rupture* > Envenom

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Finisher (multi target):

Crimson Tempest* > Rupture* > Envenom

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Opener (single target):

pre-pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion

pull:
GarroteMutilateMutilateRuptureVendettaToxic Blade -…- VanishGarrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote

*replace the first Builder after Vendetta with Fan of Knives if you use Hidden Blades.

Opener (multi target):

pre-pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion

pull:
Garrote (up to 3 targets) – Build to 4+- Crimson Tempest – Build to 4+- RuptureVendettaToxic Blade -…- VanishGarrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote

Rotation:

Use Marked for Death on low Combo Points.
Use Vendetta on cooldown.
Use Vanish if Garrote has ~6 seconds left .
Use Toxic Blade on cooldown.
Use Blindside if you have a proc and not on full cp, always below 30%.

Use Garrote if it has ~6 secs left (and is not empowered) and you are not on full cp.
Use Garrote if it has ~1 secs left.

Use Finisher According to Finisher priority with 4+ Combo Points.
Use Builder According to Builder priority with less then full Combo Points.

Notes:

Crimson Tempest – refresh with 2 or less seconds remaining.
Rupture – refresh with less then ~5-7 seconds remaining.
Rupture – on all Targets.
Garrote – on all Targets.

Talents

Single Target:

2010022
2010023 – for pre patch ONLY under the condition that you use Mantle of the master Assassin and T21 4p (likely without T20).

Multi Target:

2010022 – default choice
2010021 – alternative

Gameplay

Combo Builder (filler): 

Pistol Shot* > Sinister Strike

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Finisher (single target + multi target):

Roll the Bones* > Between the Eyes* > Dispatch

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Reroll logic

Grand Melee or Ruthless Precision or any 2+ buffs.

Opener (single target + multi target):

pre-pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion, Adrenalin Rush
Note: Adrenalin Rush will put you out of stealth, you can enter stealth or open with Sinister Strike.

pull:
Ambush – build to 5+ – Roll the Bones
*use Blade Rush after Ambush on 2+ targets

Rotation:

Use Adrenaline Rush on cooldown.
Use Marked for Death on low Combo Points.
Use Blade Flurry on 2+ targets.
Use Blade Rush on cooldown in single target
Use Blade Rush during Blade Flurry on 2+ targets.

Use Finisher according to Finisher priority if you have 5 Points. Reduce the Amount by 1 if Broadside or Opportunity is up(by 2 if both are up).
Use Builder according to the Builder priority with less then full Combo Points.

Notes:

Pistol Shot – only if it procs and you have 4 or less cp.(3 when Broadside or Opportunity is up, 2 if both are up)
Roll the Bones – refresh if less then 3 seconds remaining or you have the wrong buffs (see reroll logic)
Between the Eyes – only if Ruthless Precision is up
Vanish – utility cooldown without Mantle of the master Assassin
Vanish – Use it before KS/BR if you use Mantle of the master Assassin

Talents

Single Target:

2330031

Multi Target:

2320012

Gameplay

Combo Builder:

Shuriken Storm (3+ targets) > Shadowstrike > Shuriken Storm (2 targets) > Backstab

Finisher (single target):

Nightblade* (Not during Shadow Dance) > Secret Technique* (during Symbols of Death) > Eviscerate

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Finisher (multi target):

Nightblade* (Not during Shadow Dance) > Secret Technique* > Eviscerate

*additional requirements in the Notes section

Opener (single target):

pre pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion, Shadow Blades

pull:
ShadowstrikeNightbladeSymbols of DeathShadow DanceShadowstrikeShadowstrikeEviscerateShadowstrikeShadowstrikeEviscerateShadow Dance
*use Secret Technique instead of the first Evi if you have it talented

Opener (multi target):

pre pull:
Marked for Death (if talented), Potion, Shadow Blades

pull:
ShadowstrikeNightbladeSymbols of DeathShadow Dance
Shadowstrike/Shuriken Storm depending on target count.
Finish with 5+. Use Secret Technique as first Finisher in dance, Eviscerate for the following.

Rotation:

Use Symbols of Death on CD.
Use Marked for Death on low Combo Points.
Use Shadow Blades on CD.
Use Vanish with 1 or less secounds of Find Weakness remaining.

Use Shadow Dance with 2 or less Combo Points when Symbols of Death is up.
Use Shadow Dance with 2 or less Combo Points when you are about to cap on charges.

Use Finisher according to Finisher priority if you have 4+ Combo Points(MfD) or 5+ with (DS).
Use Builder according to the Builder priority with less then full Combo Points.

Notes:

Nightblade – refresh it with less then 4,2 sec remaining (Mfd) or less then 4,8 sec remaining (DS).
Nightblade (exception) – refresh it shortly before symbols comes up if the duration is to low(less then remaining cooldown + 10).
Nightblade – on all targets if they survive for 12+ secounds.
Secret Technique – Preferably use during Shadow Dance, use on CD with more targets due to cdr.

Disclaimer:

Rotation and Talent choice can be slightly different in the pre-patch.

Talent Notation:

Talents are distinguished by talent number in row order. 0 signifies free choice.

NOTE: The shown talent is an Example, the talent for your specification can be found in the Talent section of each spec.

Therefore if the talents are listed as:

  • 2010032

that means that you need to pick:

  • In row 1, take talent number 2
  • In row 2, take any talent
  • In row 3, take talent number 1
  • In row 4, take any talent
  • In row 5, take any talent
  • In row 6, take talent number 3
  • In row 7, take talent number 2
Read More...

Patch 7.1.5 Preliminary Talent Builds

This blog was originally posted on roguedpsguide.com by Akshay Dev

Legion Patch 7.1.5 has just been deployed across all regions. We have created the optimal preliminary talent builds for single target DPS. This gear set includes pre-Nighthold gear.

These are the talent builds that you will use for Nighthold progression. We expect the builds to change once set bonuses come in to play.

More detailed information can be found in the guides.

Assassination (Poison)

For Single Target, Master Poisoner is now the more optimal level 15 tier talent to choose. This is due to a nerf to Elaborate Planning from 15% to 12%. Mastery will also be more valued with the scaling of this build. Although EP buff maintenance is no longer a part of the play-style with this build, the artifact trait Surge of Toxins has the same duration and plays roughly the same, it is triggered by envenom; its duration is a static 5 seconds like EP, however its effect’s strength scales with the number of Combo Points spent on the envenom.
Gear build used for sims

Assassination (Bleed)

For Single Target, the change from the live standard Exsanguinate build is the selection of Vigor over Deeper Stratagem. This is primarily due to the Deeper Stratagem nerf from 10% additional finisher damage to 5%, as well as the change in Rupture’s scaling design; the DoT value of Rupture has been standardized and no longer scales with CP, hence negating the additional potency of a 6cp Rupture from live over a lower-cp funded one. Increased combo point expenditure on Rupture now only makes it last longer, with the average damage done over it’s duration remaining unchanged.
Gear build used for sims

Outlaw

For Single Target, the standard build still applies, with Ghostly Strike still being the best level 15 tier talent, however Quick Draw is still the optimal tier talent over Ghostly Strike for Greenskin’s Waterlogged Wristcuffs wearers.
Gear build used for sims

Subtlety

The talents for subtlety remain largely unchanged for single target. For the level 15 tier of talents, however, Weaponmaster is now the go-to. The reason for this being a DPS gain over Master of Subtlety is due to the extra energy regen from WM procs counteracting the Master of Shadows nerf from 30 to 25 energy.
Gear build used for sims

Note: The 60 talent tier is just personal preference. None of the talents provide any DPS increase

DISCLAIMER: The geared is not 100% optimal

All of these results are derived from Aethys’ simulations on his spreadsheet and are updated for patch 7.1.5.

Simulations provide a good example of how a spec plays over the course of a patchwerk fight, however in-game experience has additional factors such as mechanics affecting uptime, and ability RNG (Especially with abilities like Roll The Bones) may vary from the ideal situations that sims present.

A range of data from in-game testing as well as logs on various fights on Warcraft Logs can reflect the realistic execution of the ideal situation that simulations present.

Read More...