Don Jose’s Rogue Leveling Advice

Ahoy! I am Don Jose#9643, one of the moderators of the Ravenholdt Discord community. With the release of allied races and the revamp of the level-up experience (increased mob hp, zone scaling, higher xp requirements to level, etc.) we’ve been fielding a lot of questions about the level-up experience for rogues. This document is a TL;DR “guide” of 1-90. Bear in mind this content is purely my opinion.

During the level-up experience rogues lack real AoE tools until level 63 and are strongest in 1v1 situations. You want to use Sap, Blind, Cheap Shot, and Gouge to try and even the odds if you find yourself facing a 2 or 3 pull. Even at level 63, your energy regeneration might not be enough to solidly sustain AoE. Begin combat from Stealth whenever possible, and remember that you won’t get Vanish until level 48. Bummer.

My pick for a leveling spec:

  1. #1: Subtlety
  2. #2: Outlaw (at level 22 w/Ambush)
  3. I would not level as Assassination.


15: Gloomblade or Master of Subtlety (see Advice below)
30: Nightstalker
45: Vigor
60: Soothing Darkness
75: Strike from the Shadows
90: Dark Shadow (burst) usually, or Enveloping Shadows (tough mobs)

Fantastic burst
Great passive self-heals and healing between pulls
Superior mobility
Fast play
Against 2+ mobs, Shadow Dance gives you another burst/stealth phase.
At level 42 Shadowstrike ports you to your target – great mobility!

Against mighty mobs, might fall behind Assassination or Outlaw
Backstab is often weak while soloing unless you waste time stunning/controlling mobs

In my opinion, Subtlety is the most versatile and fun leveling spec. It has great burst and mobility. If mobs survive your initial burst, Gloomblade will be the best option, as you likely won’t be able to Backstab them without juggling CCs-all of which is a waste of time if you could just kill them with a Gloomblade.

15: Quick Draw
30: Hit and Run. Grappling Hook has a lot of pathing issues, but if you’re in flat areas it’s probably more useful.
45: Vigor
60: Iron Stomach
75: Any, but I preferred Dirty Tricks
90: Killing Spree for solo, Cannonball Barrage for dungeons

Great at slowing runners (Pistol Shot, Between the Eyes)
Ranged stun with Between the Eyes
Sustained damage
Superior ranged if necessary (Pistol Shot/Between the Eyes)
Grappling Hook is solid mobility if pathing issues don’t occur (flat terrain)
Bribe is awesome if it works

Overall inferior mobility – Outlaw rogues have to talent Grappling Hook – Assassination and Subtlety get Shadowstep baseline
Crimson Vial is a reliable on-demand heal, but costs energy. All three specs have Crimson Vial, but the other two have additional healing options (Leeching Poison/Soothing Darkness)
Inferior burst to Subtlety
Generally “slow” play until Roll the Bones at level 40, and then play becomes RNG-based

You want to be sure to Ambush from stealth and use Saber Slash to get to a 5 combo point Run Through. Only use Pistol Shot for its slow or on Opportunity procs (free use). Use Between the Eyes as a stun or a ranged hit. Use/abuse Bribe at level 54; this can actually be a mighty tool! Once you unlock Roll the Bones, maintain a buff as much as possible, but don’t waste energy re-rolling.

15: Master Poisoner – this boosts Leeching Poison (see level 60)
30: Nightstalker for speed or 1v1 or Subterfuge for strong mobs and 1v2/3
45: Vigor
60: Leeching Poison
75: Any, depending on your playstyle
90: Toxic Blade

Heavy DoT damage can serve as prolonged AoE
Has decent mobility with Shadowstep
Can DoT from ranged

Too much damage is reliant on DoTs
Energy regeneration is reliant on DoTs
No Envenom until level 36
Mutilate starves you for energy at lower levels

If you insist on leveling as Assassination, wait until level 36 for Envenom.

A note about Dungeons:
At the time of writing this, I haven’t tried low level dungeons since the changes hit, but I’ve heard that they now take longer and yield less XP than questing, on average. If you opt to run dungeons, know that your trash damage is going to be less than many other specs. As Assassination you can experiment with multi-dotting mobs, but overall you will probably just do better focusing on one target at a time. Your time to shine is against bosses. At level 63 this may pick up significantly. If you have experience with the 63-100 level range let me know!


Class Discords: The Basics

In the past, websites, forums, and IRC were the primary sources of information about World of Warcraft, along with word-of-mouth. When Discord launched it quickly became the go-to resource for game communities. There was no manual–we were all pioneers as users and leaders of the platform. Over the past year we have learned a lot about the strengths and weaknesses of Discord as a chat client that is different/unique from anything that came before it.

Recently there has been a lot of discussion amongst the Ravenholdt moderation team as to how we could improve, and how class Discords in general could improve. I decided to write this guide because there is still a large volume of users that plunge into the deep end of Discord and are overwhelmed. They don’t know the basics and standards across Discords–and, in some cases, there aren’t standards–and feel nervous about asking for help or don’t understand how to find the information they need. On the flipside, the community feels exhausted (especially around patch/ptr update days) by the sheer volume of identical questions they get every day.

In this guide I will attempt to educate you on the baseline tools to have a good Discord experience. I will do my best to keep this brief. You need to bear in mind that each class server has its own rules, expectations, and organization, which I will get into later.

You poor, poor souls…

Welcome to Discord. I will be your guide.

Ahoy! I am Don Jose#9643 and I am one of the moderators of the Ravenholdt Discord community; in addition, I have leveled all classes to 110 and at least lurk the majority of other class Discords. I consider myself a casual player because although I do raid, I do not push high M+ keys or compete in any Mythic Raid races. Anybody who knows me or hangs out in Ravenholdt knows that I love helping players, memes, and generally hate RNG.

Note: I welcome all constructive criticism (spare me the “lol ur guide sux” DMs, thanks) and suggestions. You are free to spread this guide to all corners of the Intarwebz; in fact, I encourage it. We are all a part of Discord and how the communities will function and feel.

“A BETTER COMMUNITY STARTS WITH THE SELF.-Me, 2k17 and probably other inspiring/important people

Joining a Discord Community

Discord has a ​web client​ (opened in your web browser), a ​mobile app​, and a desktop client (​you download and run it like software). The Web Client and PC Client are more or less interchangeable, but the mobile app does have some important differences that I’ll mention where appropriate. This guide is intended to be relatively TL;DR: so I’m not going to walk you through all the functionality of them. If you need/want more information, head to discord’s website: ​

To join a Discord community, you will need a link to that specific server community.

Links generally look like this:

(note the “” in the URL. Beware of false URLs!)

Or like this:

Or like this:


The majority of users will get invitations from guildies, friends, or forums.

Check the Channels

On the left side of the web and desktop clients, you will see that server’s channel list. These are the organizational ​topics of discussion​. Keep in mind that these are generally suggestions; players will often go off-topic. That’s one difference between a Discord server and a forum: these are living, breathing, real-time chats that move quickly.

Let’s use Ravenholdt as an example:

At the top, you’ll see the server you are currently on.

FOR MOBILE USERS:​ On the ​mobile app, ​channels are listed when you hit the top left ​=​ button​.



Below that, you can see channel headers (note the “PLEASE READ” over our #announcements and #resources-and-faq channels)



Spec Discussion – Check Pins

I’ll talk about pins soon. They are ​very important to universal discord use. If a Discord server has class or spec channels, ​that is not a guarantee that discussion will always be on-topic. This varies from server to server. Sometimes it’s just where players of that spec congregate.



If a server has a “general” or “off-topic” tab they are often less strictly moderated and feature random discussion topics.




How individual servers word these channels will be different, but they all have them.​ You are responsible for the rules of the server, whether you read them or not. ​If you are ever confused or unclear about the rules, send a direct message to a moderator by right-clicking their name and selecting “message.” This is called ​Direct Messaging​, or “DMing.”

Familiarize Yourself with the Mod Team

Every discord has moderators. They are always listed at or near the top of the user list, which can be found on the right of the screen.

Again, using Ravenholdt as an example:

You can open or close the member list using the “People” icon, circled. It’s usually open by default. This is the same button/placement on the MOBILE APP.

Sometimes moderators have hierarchies with various titles. In Ravenholdt, our founders and team-leaders have purple names and are referred to (lovingly) as “Despots”.





Many servers have bots. I’m not going to get into them because they vary greatly in functionality and control–but they’re usually there to automate things like Raidbots simming, role/color requests, and so on.


Our moderators are are referred to (equally lovingly) as “Shadowblades”.

It me!



Moderation from server to server varies a lot, but in general, they are there to keep the peace, enforce rules, and be a resource for information (or somebody who can point you to the correct resource). Treat them with respect and you will have it returned, 9.9 / 10 times.

A Note: All mods are not around 24/7. They are volunteers, unpaid (as far as I’m aware), and they are not your personal helpdesk. Please consult the FAQs and the Pinned Messages before you reach out to them about game questions. If you see harassment, or feel like something wrong has occurred in the Discord chat, reach out to them with your concerns immediately. Do not escalate situations. As a final reminder, each Discord server operates independently. What might be considered harassment on Ravenholdt might be totally acceptable on another, so long as it doesn’t violate Discord’s TOS.

Check the Pinned Messages 

If you’ve already gone on Discord you have likely seen push pin emojis and seen people saying “check the pins,” or; “it’s in the pins,” and so on.

What are “the pins?”

They will vary from server to server, but generally they are ​the most important, up-to-date, and relevant/frequently-asked questions and guides.

FOR MOBILE USERS: The pins are located behind the ​“…” button in the top right corner of the server.

Note how when you open the pins in #outlaw I have listed relevant links to the guides, as well as a post about the current tier set and an external link to a post about UI Lag Tolerance.

Each channel (such as #outlaw or #pvp) will have its ​own​ pinned messages.


​ You are going to get meme’d into orbit if you join a Class Discord and ask a pinned question (ie. a question that is answered in a pinned message). The “regulars” of ​any community see it happen tens of hundreds of times per day, and it gets really old, really fast, to give the same answer over and over. ​That’s why pinned messages exist. You are not the first person with your question and you will not be the last.

Imagine being a retail clerk and there’s a sign on your counter that says, “Restrooms are to the left,” but hundreds of times per day customers come in and ask you, “Where are the restrooms?” when you’re busy helping another customer. It’s a similar situation! There’s nothing wrong with having questions, but when you don’t put in that minimum of work/research yourself you just look lazy and entitled.

Why am I being told to ‘Sim It’ or ‘Sim Yourself’? 

​TL;DR​: WoW is a complex game. Legion, in particular, introduced a lot of factors which make it difficult to tell if X talent, gear piece, etc. is superior. Running fight simulations (“simming”) is one of the best tools we have to try and get a more data-driven, accurate answer. WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU IS NOT BEST FOR EVERYONE. Simming is the “most-honest” answer. When people tell you this they aren’t trying to “just get rid of you,” they’re trying to be honest with you and help you get the best answer.

How do I sim? 

Sim-yourself​ is a guide to using SimC (SimulationCraft) which is a powerful but somewhat complicated tool that runs thousands of simulated fights to try and determine your performance (and from that, what is better or worse for you).

If that is intimidating or too complicated, there are alternatives:

  1. ​Raidbots runs SimC with a newbie-friendly user interface.
  2. Ask Mr. Robot, aka. AMR, runs their own simulator​ ​with a newbie-friendly user interface.

How do I become a ‘regular’?   ​

Hang out on a server a lot. Be generally respectful. Don’t brag unless you’ve got logs to back you up (and even still, don’t brag, that’s annoying). Help out others. Have some fun, meme around a little. Have you ever joined a new friend group? It’s like that. Don’t be obnoxious, respect that some of these people have known each other for years, and you will eventually be included into the recognizable community figures/leaders/scallywags.

Why is it so chaotic/spammy? People seem really cranky!

​The chances are overwhelming that you logged on to the Discord after a ​big announcement, PTR datamine, or patch notes​. During those times the traffic to class Discords surges tremendously, and things get absolutely wild. Don’t judge the server by those days. Mods will have their hands full and there will be a LOT of people spamming the same questions over and over. Don’t be that person.

Other Resources:

Hero Damage: ​A website dedicated to the most current trinket, talent, relic, and gear simulations. It’s a great resource to check if you just looted a trinket or relic and have ​no idea if it’s an upgrade or not.

Ravenholdt: It’s my guide, so I get to plug the rogue website/resource. Ravenholdt is a go-to for various rogue-related content, but also has other guides such as the simming guide I linked above.

Class and Community Discord Links:

Community Discord Servers:  A list of links to the current class discord servers.  If your server is missing from that list please contact Wowhead to have yours added.



Antorus Tips & Tricks

Hello! Kistler here with more Tips & Tricks for Antorus the Burning Throne. As we collectively progress through the raid, changes will be made to this guide: pruning unnecessary tips and adding interactions found during progression. Please help me with this process by leaving a comment here or pinging me on Discord (Kistler#0524) if you feel I have either omitted a significant interaction, or more importantly, if you believe an interaction listed below to be incorrect.

You’ll notice there are a few remaining italicized questions regarding how a handful of interactions play out. If you happen to know an answer or test one out yourself, please let me know. Thanks!

Now get out there and kill some bosses!

Garothi Worldbreaker

Felhounds of Sargeras

Antoran High Command

  • Fusillade: Feint
  • Entropic Blast: CloS removes/resets the stacking debuff, but does NOT immune inital blast(s)
  • (Mythic) Shock Grenade: CloS negates (does NOT stun you nor nearby allies)


Portal Keeper Hasabel


  • Interrupt each platform’s mini-boss, as well as imps on main platform
  • Do not attempt to heal yourself up too aggressively on the Fel platform since the ticking damage is based off current HP
  • CAUTION: If assigned to portal groups, beware, CloS removes the respective debuff you’re transporting

Essence of Eonar


  • Remember, this is largely a trash-mob encounter—change your gear-set accordingly!
  • Adds are susceptible to most forms of CC; make use of Prey on the Weak
  • Direct Spear to edges of the platforms if targeted

Imonar the Soulhunter

  • Pulse Grenade: CloS (prevents damage, but not knockback) & Feint
  • Stasis Trap: CloS (prevents damage, but not stun) & Feint
  • Charged Blasts: CloS & Feint
  • Sleep Canister: CloS as the projectile travels toward you (prevents debuff, and therefore does not sleep nearby allies)


  • You’ll likely be one of the first to reach Imonar during each transition, remember to do debuff maintenance and hold CDs until the rest of the raid reaches Imonar and his damage-reduction channel is interrupted



  • Hold mid to long CDs for first set of Fel Reavers to capitalize on Initializing
  • Be aware that DFA on this encounter, similiar to ToS’s FA, has a guaranteed landing spot, immediately behind the boss as you first approach him. Be careful not to accidentally DFA into A) Ruiner, B) the tank taking a Forging Strike hit, C) a Reverberating Strike pulse
  • CloS no longer works on Demolish



  • Intentionally taking Marked Prey hits is recommended given the reliability and quickness of Shadowstep

Coven of Shivarra


  • Prefer Asara/Diima for targets, as Noura’s Whirling Saber has the most potential to be disruptive for optimal DPS
  • Blind, stun, slow Torment of Norgannon adds; be sure to utilize Shadowstep/Sprint



  • Focus CCs and damage on the Embers before swapping to the Flame of Taeshalach adds
  • Possible to utilize DFA animation to avoid knockback from Flame Rend and Wake of Flames, but be careful not to walk in front of him after landing; Shadowstep back to him after the raid-knockback, if not DFAing

Argus the Unmaker



An Interview with Paryah

Hey everyone, Haileaus here. I thought it would be cool to interview Paryah post-Blizzcon, so I did! Hope you enjoy!

Part 1 – Legion

Ok, so I’m way out of the loop. What happened with the whole Legion thing? Did we win?

We did! We…um…defeated the Legion? We assume? …since the last raid isn’t quite here yet. But yes, Sylvanas and Anduin, at least, live to fight another day. And fight they will.

What is the current state of the rogue class? I know Legion brought lots of changes, are there any generalizations you can make that would help old fogeys like me decide if we want to learn the new ways?

The state of rogue is good. There are always things that we might like tweaked or changed, but for the most part Assassination and Subtlety are both acceptable. Outlaw boasts fun gameplay but damage-wise it falls a little behind the other two. What it lacks in competitiveness, it makes up for with swagger, so all is not lost.

Even before Alpha there was drama about the rogue HQ being in Dalaran instead of Ravenholdt. In your eyes, how did it turn out?

When I first visited the rogue class hall I was super impressed with the detail and care that they put into it. It really is an amazing place and very roguelike. That said, as the expansion wore on, I began to wish once again that we had been put at Ravenholdt. Being able to get away from Dalaran to our own space that felt more like a rogue enclave and less like a seedy bar would have been nice. There is a teleport to Ravenholdt item that spawns in the class hall that you can pick up. Delightfully, it allows you to get to Ravenholdt from anywhere. I did find myself wishing for a permanent portal though, rather like the one that the monks got to go to Kun-lai Summit. And the druid hall is spoiled for portal choices. When all is said and done, I think it worked. Just <stares wistfully into space>, I like Ravenholdt…


Part 2 – Blizzcon and Beyond

Ok, now to the more relevant bits. You attended Blizzcon. How was it? Did you get a chance to say hi to Daxxarri?

Blizzcon was amazing. My expectation was that I’d be able to see more panels than I have in previous years on the Virtual Ticket, but that didn’t turn out to be the case. There was so much going on and so many people to meet…it was differently awesome than the Virtual Ticket. It was much more of a social experience. I met so many super cool people. Relevant to us, I met Celestalon who is a total sweetie and Perculia of Wowhead who I think is a Demon Hunter now but certainly used to main rogue. I also met Mitch and Matt of Blizzard Watch who write awesome stuff. I even got to shake Ion Hazzikostas’ hand and we exchanged a few words. He was wonderful. Sadly I did not get to meet Daxxarri. I would very much have liked to. Next year!

What upcoming feature(s) are you most excited about?

I think that I’m most excited about the new races. I’ve wanted to be a Zandalari troll since Mists and I am gratified that my prediction that Horde would get Nightbourne turned out to be correct. I had predicted High Elves for Alliance, but Void Elves are the next best thing – though I confess I’d hoped that Alleria would join Sylvanas on the Horde side. Nevertheless, I’m looking forward to trying them all out. I may even roll a Dark Iron Dwarf. Maybe.

I read Fans and Ravenholdt’s Rogue Recap and I see we’re getting a bunch of new races. My question is, when will the Tauren rogues finally come out of stealth?

Ha. Only with the judicious use of toys, I fear. Despite being a fairly common ask, rogues have once again dodged the bovine bullet.

I hear PvE servers are going away, which could mean a legitimate return of world PvP. As the traditional master of ganks, what do you think this means for the rogue class?

This will be interesting. PvP mode will be toggleable, but only in major cities so you will have to go forth into the world having made the decision to PvP. My first thought was that the PvP targets may be reduced, but on reflection, with higher rewards for PvP mode and those who are really opposed to PvP able to opt out, I think it will make for a livelier and overall better experience for everyone.

Finally, Vanilla servers are coming back. Thoughts?

This is an interesting one. I was never among those who called for support of vanilla servers, but I find myself thrilled at the prospect of revisiting old haunts and getting to remember old quests. I will be an enthusiastic vanilla tourist. That said, my suspicion is that a large number of those calling for vanilla servers (not all to be sure) are wanting to relive the social experience and the newness of the MMO. I feel that those people, many of whom are in different places than they were in their lives, will find themselves disappointed and I fear that they will blame their disappointment on Blizzard for giving them exactly what they asked for. This is all speculation, of course, because Blizzard still hasn’t totally decided how they are going to implement the experience. Will we get a vanilla world and vanilla quests but with modern graphics and optimizations? Will there be flying and other more recent conveniences? Or will we all be in a way-it-was, more pixelated world, jogging about trying to figure out how quests work and what herbs are pickable? Will the Classic servers remain vanilla, or will they get expansions as time passes? Only time will tell but I’ll be excited to see how it all plays out.

Is there anything else you’d like to add?

I thoroughly recommend the Blizzcon experience. For getting the straight information, the Virtual Ticket is great, but nothing beats being there in person. The people and their energy make the con. It is so apparent how hard each Blizzard employee works to pull this thing off. And you still get the Virtual Ticket as well.


Blizzcon 2017 Rogue Recap

Following this week’s Fans of Knives it’s been hard to miss that we have a new expansion on our hands. There was a large focus on gameplay features and progress systems in Blizzard’s presentations this year. I’m certain that Blizzard managed to make many people happy with largely sought after features such as a revamped leveling experience with scaling zones, no less than six new playable races, scrapping of the current legendary system in exchange for the new Heart of Azeroth and last but not least the announcement that a vanilla legacy server is finally in the works! (For which Blizzard is currently searching for a software engineer if any reader feels up for the challenge.)

In the shadows of these huge announcements we rogues were in good company of all other classes. There were no groundbreaking class announcements as we’ve had previous years. This doesn’t mean that our classes will stay the same or that you should worry about being stuck with that thing you didn’t like. The class devs are of course hard at work improving and polishing our classes, there’s a lot of work to be done considering that we’re losing a lot of mechanics and abilities when the artifact weapons and legendary effects are phased out.

A sneak peek into this work can be gleaned from the playable Battle for Azeroth demo that was playable at Blizzcon. Two major features were that classes are once again getting an unique class buff and that there will be another major stat and item level squish. We had the opportunity to see some ability and talent changes already in the works. Below I’ve made a recap of the first public view on new talents.

All specs

  • Expose armor seems to be our class buff. 5% increased physical damage, gets applied by our generators.
  • Feint gets reduced from 50% to 40% AoE damage reduction.


  • Crimson Tempest is back as a level 100 talent and replaces Death from Above on the level 100 talent row.
  • Poison Bomb is now a level 100 talent with 4% chance per Combo Point and replaces Venom rush.
  • Venom Rush is moved to level 90 and replaces Alacrity – now reduces mutilate cost by 5 energy on poisoned targets, and moved to tier 90.
  • Master Assassin is now a level 30 talent and replaces Shadow Focus – 50% increased crit chance for 3 seconds after breaking stealth.
  • Iron Wire is a new level 75 talent that replaces Thugee – increase the duration of Garrote’s silence effect to 8 sec. Enemies silenced by Garrote deal 15% reduced damage for 8 sec.


  • Grappling Hook baseline becomes baseline with 1 minute CD.
  • A new talent Retractable Hook takes Grappling Hooks place for a level 30 talent. – Reduces cooldown on Grappling Hook by 30 seconds
  • Loaded Dice becomes a talent on the level 100 row and replaces DfA.
  • Blinding Powder is a new level 100 talent that replaces Parley. – Reduces the cooldown of Blind by 30 sec and increases its range by 15 yards.


  • Tangled Shadows changed to Shot in the Dark, your first Cheap Shot after stealthing is free.
  • Shuriken Combo gets nerfed from 10% per stack to 5%.

Our class buff becomes Expose Armor, which works differently than it has before. The current iteration simply requires us to be on a target using our abilities to work. The effectiveness will go down if we have more than one target however, and how this works on our AoE generating abilities remain to be seen. All in all I doubt this is a change that will have any impact on us as rogues. It means that you would always want to make sure you have a rogue on your raiding roster but this is nothing new for our class.

There’s always been a lot of speculation about rogue survivability. Cloak of Shadows, Cheat Death, and Feint are extremely strong tools that, more as a rule than as an exception, have been vitally strategy defining on at least one boss per tier. I’m happy to see that these have so far not been butchered; survivability is currently the main raid utility we have. I hope to see us keep these tools into the future as well, even if at a reduced effectiveness.

Certain legendaries or artifact traits have been converted to talents. So far we can see Poison Bomb (trait), Master Assassin (Legendary shoulders) and Loaded Dice (trait) being refitted as talents. There’s also a lot of room to see our current traits and legendary effects coming back in the Heart of Azeroth system. The changes in the Assassination tree also point to the creation of an AoE row which lets you tune around massive AoE, controlled AoE, and perishable adds coming throughout the fight. Interesting!

Another thing that has people excited is that Grappling Hook is now a baseline ability for the Outlaw spec. Cooldown has been increased to 60 seconds, but in its place there’s a new talent to reduce it to 30 seconds again. This means you can both have the extra burst of mobility from Grappling Hook, as well as either the attack range increase from Acrobatic Strikes or the extra movement speed from Hit and Run.

Personally I’m looking forward to this expansion and to following the development of our awesome class from now to when we get to make everyone feel uneasy about being in the shadows when they have world PvP toggled on!


Interview in the Underbelly: Alaizabel

Welcome to the second in the series Interview in the Underbelly. We’re going to be talking with Alaizabel. I previously raided with Alaizabel in Hellfire Citadel in eXample, and he’s re-rolled to Rogue this expansion so I thought it would be great to hear from him.

Tell everyone about yourself

My name is Alaizabel and I’m playing Rogue in eXample on EU-Kazzak. Previously, I played Death Knight in Warlords of Draenor. I’ve been playing in eXample for two years, and I enjoy our semi-hardcore atmosphere a ton. I used to spend a lot of time and resources on Death Knight, and Death Knight gameplay, and I was very visible in #Acherus (back when it was an IRC-channel). I no longer have a lot of extra time besides university to delve deep into theorycrafting, unfortunately.

When and how did you start playing World of Warcraft?

I started playing the game back in the beginning of The Burning Crusade when I was 11 or 12 years old. I remember spending a copious amount of time convincing my parents that paying monthly fees for a game wasn’t completely insane. I played through TBC and WOTLK with no breaks, and then quit when MoP came out, because of IRL commitments.

How did you choose the name for your Rogue?

It is originally the name of my Death Knight on EU-Ravencrest, when I played there through Warlords of Draenor. I decided to rename the Rogue from Alaizqt to Alaizabel, since it would be my new main, after we came to EU-Kazzak. It’s origin is from the book “A Haunting of Alaizabel Cray” by Chris Wooding. A brilliant book, by the way.

What do you enjoy most about playing Rogue?

I enjoy being able to do a lot of jobs on a fight: always being useful, basically. Secondly, I enjoy doing a lot of damage, and Rogues do a lot of damage in this expansion.

What do you dislike most about playing a Rogue?

My main dislike is not about Rogue specifically, but playing Rogue in this specific expansion. The fact that you “have to” farm legendaries and AP for 3 specializations is a lot of work. I dislike that a lot about playing Rogue in legion.

Tell everyone an interesting situation that has happened while playing a Rogue

Hmm… Well, playing Outlaw Rogue on Cenarius, and re-rolling for TB to clear brambles, while ranged players are screaming soak at the top of their lungs, was pretty interesting. And then there is obviously all the Death from Above situations, where it either takes you to another galaxy, casually displaces you 1284 degrees and puts you on a mechanic, or puts you through the floor. All of them interesting and hysterical first time they happen. It’s like all the memes with driving vehicles in PUBG (PlayerUnknown’s Battlegrounds) but in WoW.

What would you play instead of the Rogue, and why?

I would probably play Mage if Rogue somehow was unavailable. It has similar cheese capabilities with Invis and Ice Block to the Rogue. My second and third option would probably be DH (pretty close to mage), and Shadow Priest (because I just like the play style).

Which expansion has been your favourite?

Even with all it’s flaws, I must say that it’s a toss-up between Legion and WotLK, Legion for the gameplay, WotLK for the nostalgia.

Which expansion has been your least favourite?

Probably Warlords of Draenor, of the ones I’ve played, even though I liked just raid-logging. There was simply absolutely nothing to do outside raids. The last tier of the raid (HFC) was also 13 months long, which was super unbearable.

You previously played Death Knight, why the change to Rogue for Legion?

Death Knight simply seemed super legendary-dependent with Unholy Bracers being like the only crutch carrying Death Knight DPS to any meaningful level. Rogue was my main alt, and I swapped to it as main 6 or 7 days into the expansion because of anticipated soaking jobs, better DPS etc.

What has been your favourite boss in Tomb of Sargeras for Subtlety Rogue?

Even though this boss has been completely and utterly destroying raid morale, Kil’jaeden is a super high-skill boss for subtlety Rogue. You have a butt-load of mechanics to do, while keeping your priority target DPS high.

What changes would you like to see for Assassination or Outlaw Rogue?

Assassination needs to have better AOE, or at least comparable single-target damage to the other specializations. I think Assassination was in a really good spot, tuning-wise in Nighthold. It would have been interesting debating what specialization to play if Shuriken Combo was a thing at that point.

Do you think it’s possible to remain loyal to a spec and still succeed in Mythic raiding?

Yes, definitely. The Mythic raiding spectrum is super wide, and you can easily play whatever spec you prefer in a Mythic environment that is relatively casual at the same time.

Thank you Alaizabel!

Thank you Alaizabel for taking the time to answer our questions. If you would like to follow Alaizabel on Twitter or follow his stream on Twitch, I’m sure he would appreciate it.

Next interview, we’re going to look at having an interview with a member of the Rogue theorycrafting community.


Interview in the Underbelly: Paryah

Our very first post in the series Interview in the Underbelly. We’re going to be hearing from the one and only Paryah. As one of the founders of Ravenholdt, I thought Paryah would be a great guest to start the series.

The goal of the series is to interview a member of the Rogue community maybe every 1-2 weeks. Hopefully we’ll have a range of people from all walks of life within World of Warcraft. We’ll grow this series over time and hopefully everyone enjoys the content!

Tell everyone about yourself

I am Paryah. I currently double main Rogue and Vengeance DH. I am an officer in a guild that I started about six(ish) years ago. We raid Heroic and dabble in Mythic. I am not hardcore but I do love the Rogue class. I have been interested in the Rogue community and in providing the best possible resources for all Rogues since before Ravenholdt existed. Currently Ravenholdt is divided into three primary sections: the main site, the Discord, and the theorycrafting site. I run the main Ravenholdt site.

When and how did you start playing World of Warcraft?

When WoW came out I was immersed in Neverwinter Nights (I think… Wow that was a long time ago). A friend wanted me to play WoW and had me come over and check it out. But he played a Gnome mage! Seriously! That did not sell me on the game and it was a few years later that I got a real look at the real not-Gnome WoW at another friends house. I went home and immediately created an account. That was either late BC or early Wrath. I consider myself to be a Wrath-baby. My first character was an Orc Warrior and my second was my undead Rogue. The Rogue was so much fun that I have actually never gone back and finished leveling my poor Warrior.

How did you choose the name for your Rogue?

This is probably the same story as half the players in WoW, lol. I had an old D&D Dark Elf Rogue called Pariah. The name seemed fitting for a Forsaken but was taken. So I messed with the spelling and Paryah was born.

What do you enjoy most about playing a Rogue?

OMG everything! I love stealth. I love doing quests while killing as few NPCs as possible, just because I can. I love being able to explore without having to worry about fighting a bunch of mobs along the way. I love the pickpocketing content – I think that’s a lovely little thing that no one else has. Rogues are special.

What do you dislike most about playing a Rogue?

Visual clutter in melee. Nuff said.

Tell everyone an interesting situation that has happened while playing a Rogue

So there we were, fighting Ultraxion. I swore I would not hit Shadowstep… But it was there and it called to my finger and the next thing I knew I was perched on a ledge with that accursed dragon way above me. And I was stuck there til we killed him or wiped. So here I am, enjoying the view of a devastated Dragonblight, watching my DPS on Recount plummet, and suddenly there is this tiger sitting next to me. I could not for the life of me figure out where he had come from or why he was there. The Hunter’s pet wasn’t a tiger. After a little bit he faded out. You guys, I thought I’d discovered some hidden content! Seriously, there are invisible tigers living in Wyrmrest Temple! OMG! What could it mean? It wasn’t until years later that I figured out that the Hunter had Stampede or some such Hunter ability and one of his little fellows must have done just what I did and got stuck on the ledge too. Yeah, I felt like an idiot.

Of course there was that other time on Thok when I thought I was talented into Burst of Speed (I miss Burst of Speed) but I’d forgotten to switch talents. Thok targeted me and I hit Burst of Speed…and Shadowstepped right to the jailer… Good times…

What would you play instead of a Rogue, and why?

If Rogues did not exist, I would probably be a druid. Before this expansion my second main was my bear. Love the versatility. Love bear, love kitty.

Which expansion has been your favourite?

Mists of Pandaria. OMG that expansion was so gorgeous. I loved the zones. I loved the story. I was so ashamed to be Horde. The raids were fun. And to top it off, my guild was flourishing. We started in Cataclysm, but in Mists we really came into our own. It was a lot of fun.

Which expansion has been your least favourite?

I hate to say this, but probably Legion. Don’t get me wrong, least is relative, I still love WoW. But Legion feels so big that I can’t quite get a handle on it. I’m a completionist and it really feels like I can’t do everything. Professions feel obstructed. AP feels infinite. There are thing I love, like the class mounts and the zones and Suramar (which was so made for Rogues) and Demon Hunters (Vengeance is so much fun!), but I feel like I am constantly playing catch-up. Maintaining two raiding mains along with a stable of alts is a losing battle.

How did Ravenholdt come about?

Once upon a time Rfeann was the Rogue columnist at WoW Insider, a news site that is now gone (it is the reason that Blizzard Watch now exists – but that’s another story). At that time WoW Insider had to downsize and laid off a bunch of writers, including the class columnists. In his personal blog, Rfeann mentioned that he had some ideas for a Rogue community website. I did too. I currently had a site called One Rogues Resources which pulled together Rogue news and listed useful Rogue sites but I was interested in more. I shot him an email saying you, me, awesome? He replied with the idea that the four active (at the time) Rogue bloggers should talk about creating Ravenholdt. He and I, along with Fierydemise and Haileaus got talking… And the rest is history.

Tell everyone a fun fact about Fierydemise

A fun fact. Hmm. Well FD is about the most perfect person: cute, smart, great taste in class and entertainment, and about the sweetest kindest person you will ever meet. But beyond that, he has to be the world’s best ranter. I don’t know how fun a fact this is, but it’s super fun to listen to. Get him started on a topic and he’s off. I don’t think he even takes breaths. Also, he lives on Soylent.

What is the best transmogrification for the Trial of Style?

The one I’m wearing because I always win! No really, I did ToS (Trial of Style) twice, got Freestyle, and won both times in my everyday transmog. I think that means my moggery is awesome and I should quit while I’m ahead.

What is your shoe size?

7 but being undead my sharp little toes just destroy footwear – so it doesn’t really matter. If I like it, I can make it fit.

Pineapple on pizza, yay or nay?

This is a complicated question. There is a pizza place near me that does a Hawaiian pizza with pineapple, ham, and cream cheese. It is to die for. You cannot judge until you have tried this pizza.

Thank you Paryah!

We would like to extend our thanks to Paryah for answering our (and some from Patreons) questions. You can find Paryah on Twitter, or managing Ravenholdt.


Rogue WeakAuras

Playing any class at more than just a basic level requires keeping track of timers, procs, charges, and more. It is next to impossible to do this without help and there are several addons that are designed to do this for you. One of the most popular is WeakAuras.

WeakAuras is highly customizable and quite complex but once you have installed the base addon, if you aren’t up to creating your own UI, you can import a WA set created by someone else. Because everyone has different preferences, you may have to try out more than one to figure out what works best for you. Below are links to WAs created by rogues for rogues.

Gray_hound’s WA is an all inclusive package that serves all three specs and switches automatically when you change spec.

Notter’s collection is Assassination oriented but includes both other specs as well.

If you enjoy Infexious Gaming’s videos, you may want to check out his WAs.

Potato has  set for each spec.

Mystler also has a nice selection.

If you want to search for more options or specific WAs, is a searchable database collection designed specifically for sharing WAs and other similar addon elements.


Notter’s Rogue WeakAuras Compilation

I’m Notter. I’ve been playing since WoW’s open beta, and I am playing (mostly) as Assassination Rogue this expansion. I aspire for a simple UI, that enhances your performance, which is unobtrusive while out of combat. I’ve compiled, edited and created WAs to try and suit.

These WAs compilation is suited for both new and experienced rogue players, and includes features that may improve your performance through indications on when to use abilities and tracking several unique techniques. They are separated into different groups, in order to allow you to pick and choose whichever you want, but I highly suggest to use them all, as they are meant to work together.

Feel free to ask any questions, give suggestions or requests, and I’ll do my best to answer. You can reach me at either:

  • Discord – Notter#7189
  • B.Net – Notter#2746



  • Tracking debuffs, with glow showing when to refresh garrote and rupture
  • Indication for Nightstalker empowered rupture
  • Indication for Exsanguinate
  • Indications for Subterfuge empowered Garrotes
  • Poison Reminder (in case poisons ran out)
  • Kingsbane Tracking
  • Tracks envenom and Surge of Toxins
  • Tracks Poison Bomb ticks

Assassination Debuffs

Kingsbane Stacks/damage


Tracking empowered / not empowered garrote between different targets:

Tracking empowered Rupture and then Exsanguinate:




  • Tracking buffs and debuff
  • Blunderbuss / pistol shot tracker
  • RTB buffs tracker
  • Blade Flurry tracker + targets in range tracker (must have enemy name plates enabled, and in view)

Outlaw abilities tracker

Roll the Bones – all buffs


Blade Flurry tracking targets in range:



  • Tracking debuffs and abilities
  • ShadowDance tracker
  • Shadow Techniques tracker
  • Finality Indicators and Trackers
  • Finality empowered Nightblade indication

Subtlety debuffs/buffs



These WAs use EZOBOSS’s WAs as a basis, but reworked and updated for patch 7.2.5, and the new Features in WeakAuras 2.

Targets Database for debuffs are based on Riff’s code.

Shadow Techniques tracker by Lorentz

Order hall opener by Pottm

Kingsbane stacks tracker by Potatosaur

Change Log


  • Fixed Poison Bomb tracker for patch 7.3.5


  • Hide poison reminder when equipping Underlight Angler fishing rod.


  • Fixed showing both 5CP and 6CP when Vigor Ring is equipped and Deeper Stratagem is Selected.


  • Fixed outlaw’s Roll the Bones buffs not loading if DfA talent was selected


  • The “Rogue Buffs” WA had an incorrect string with only Feint instead of all buffs


  • Fixed garrote not showing as empowered after using vanish
  • Changed Shadow Dance counter to be more precise

Some Fires Never Die

fierydmise on final boss episode 66

Fierydemise on Final Boss episode #66 discussing the rogue class in Warlords of Draenor.

When Fierydemise stashed his theoretical daggers in permanent storage last month, my first thought was: “Holy crap. How did it take him this long?”

A pillar of our rogue community for the past five years, FD has been a tireless defender of truth, justice and extensive mathematical rigor dating back to at least 2010, when in his very first official WoW forum post he assailed server faction balance as “absurd.” Trying to keep up with FD — or to top him in a theorycrafting debate — was like running a marathon: You had to be prepared to match him stride for stride until one of you dropped. And it was probably gonna be you who dropped.

My own history with FD began in September 2012, when he appeared in WoW’s official rogue forum out of the blue with a guide on how to play a combat rogue in Mists of Pandaria. Our exchange in that thread is pretty much how most of our conversations went back then: I questioned his sources, he defended his diligence, and we eventually worked out a compromise.

In the years since, I learned there’s no need to question FD’s sources. As he grew from rogue spec guide writer to all-around rogue class expert to one of the leading minds in WoW theorycrafting, what gave FD his strength (and his influence) was an unforgiving dedication to accuracy and rigor, and an unwavering desire to correct errors and ensure rogue players had the best information at their fingertips.

tamen and fierydemise at PAX Prime 2015

Fierydemise (right) with fellow Shadowcraft developer Tamen at PAX Prime in 2015. (Image via Tamen on Twitter)

All of that led him to team up with Haileaus, Paryah and me to create Ravenholdt back in 2014 — and for him to take the reins of Shadowcraft, the rogue class’s most venerable optimization tool, a little over a year later, following in the footsteps of Aldriana and Pathal. Fierydemise hasn’t just been a big part of the conversation among rogue players for years; he’s created the conversation, framed it, led it. Sometimes quite literally, as in the case of one of his greatest achievements, the establishment and growth of our Discord channel. He’s also, as it happens, just a genuinely good human being, with a level of empathy and personal connection that I think many folks tend to assume can’t exist in the deeply analytical mind of a theorycrafter. But it can. In most, it very much does. FD is a shining example.

But a person can’t volunteer their time and their energy to a passion forever, and for FD, the time finally came last month. That it took him this long to reach that point is a testament not just to his own sense of dedication, but also his commitment to the rogue class, the people who play it, and the people who help make our community thrive — not just the leaders you see writing guides or posting blogs or streaming or tweeting, but those who work quietly and behind the scenes as well. FD wouldn’t leave unless he was confident there were quality folks to carry the torch. That’s how quality he is.

But hey, don’t just take my word for it. Here are a few WoW (and rogue) community leaders, both past and present, who wanted to share their own thanks and recollections about one of WoW theorycrafting’s great minds, and one of the rogue class’s greatest, period. I’ll add to this collection as more submissions come in.

Aeriwen, longtime WoW rogue guide writer and theorycrafter

I can’t recall when I first met Fiery. The years have been so many. But with a bit of sleuthing, the earliest interaction that I’ve found between us seems to have been a debate. That seems appropriate. Fiery has been an invaluable leader in our community. His careful commitment to accuracy and due diligence has carried this community for a decade. He leaves big shoes to fill, but he laid behind him a well trodden path for others to follow. It has been a honor to work with him. He has been a wonderful friend and colleague these many years. I do not have to wish him the best because I am certain that he will succeed in his next endeavor. It is in his nature to excel.

Calligraphy, Wowhead developer and recovering monk theorycrafter

FieryDemise always asked me some pretty tough questions, and presented theorycrafting in a way I hadn’t really thought of. I tend to look at things from a more practical standpoint, whereas he really pushed things into a more theoretical standpoint. I’m not as involved with rogue, but I appreciate these types of challenging questions, and that he’s one of those very rare people who will listen to the “other” view without being condescending, even when he disagrees.

Celestalon, a.k.a. Chadd Nervig, Technical Game Designer, WoW

Thanks for all the contributions you made to the community, FD!

Mystler, rogue theorycrafter and Shadowcraft developer

With your “retirement” post offical, I just want to use the opportunity to thank you for all you’ve done. Personally, when I look back at the last few years, I’ve always been a silent listener in Ravenholdt IRC and later Discord. One who has mostly consumed information from trusted people in order to get better, with some “private TC” alongside. It was not until I read your ShadowCraft call for help that I woke up and finally decided to put my passion for the class to good use. I am so happy you welcomed me with open arms and got me started, which helped a lot to overcome my anxiety to work with and for the community.

I can understand your interests have shifted and with another “Thank you” I just want to wish you all the best! 🙂

original ravenholdt logo by fierydemise

The original (and most adorable) Ravenholdt logo, designed by Fierydemise.

Paryah, Ravenholdt co-founder and rogue journalist

Fierydemise. What can I say? Ebullient, brilliant, passionate. We share a love of rogues and classic science fiction. I have loved working with him and will miss him keenly. Salute, FD, you made this community what it is. Whoever gets to work with you in the future is truly fortunate. Best to you.

Pathal, a.k.a. Pins, former rogue theorcrafting leader and Shadowcraft wizard

Out of all the people I worked with on Shadowcraft, no one managed to put up with my shenanigans and idiocy like Fierydemise. He was my sounding board and filter to the rest of the community, and I know all too well how demanding both that position and designing the engine is. Lay back, crack open a beer, and take a breath. You’ve earned it.

Vigilate, veteran top-end rogue raider and PvE streamer

Fiery, I’m sad to see you quit. I remember the first time we chatted was back sometime in mid-late Cata. At the time, I was just looking for people to chat PvE Rogue stuff with, but I ended up finding something more as the past few years have folded out. I’ll always look fondly upon the “OG Ravenholdt” from the MoP days. It was a close knit community, and you were one of the people that made it great.

Responses on Twitter to Fierydemise’s Farewell Message

From Current and Former Community Leaders

Selections From WoW Players